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If we only accept 10X surge we won't have a high enough acceptance rate and we'll be gone. So we are really NOT allowed to accept or deny any ride offered.

Uber, on the other hand, can set the price anywhere they want.
I said, "they are not holding a gun saying take this 10x surge". I did not say to "only accept 10x rides". Either way, you can easily log out when the surge turns on before a ride comes in, or you can do as you propose and only log in when the surge is 10x.

It is pretty widespread knowledge that riders can "monitor" the surge while logged out via their driver app, rider app, or even a 3rd party app. Your acceptance rate can stay at 100% should you decide to take surge or non-surge rides.
 
They know how many pax and drivers are active and from there how many are online and from there they match a pax with a driver. That intel sets the price, fees and surge. They claimed to lower rates since they knew there were fewer trips, allegedly.:rolleyes:
I am still trying to wrap my head around how Uber thinks they can be more profitable by lowering rates an therefore the commission they receive.
 
Never underestimate the wrath or path of Foober Math!
 
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I am still trying to wrap my head around how Uber thinks they can be more profitable by lowering rates an therefore the commission they receive.
Simple.
The goal is and always has been 100% servicing of pings. They are worried about losing service levels to lyft, taxis, buses, cancelations.
More important to seek 100% utilization and never miss a ping than have high rates and lose market share.
 
Simple.
The goal is and always has been 100% servicing of pings. They are worried about losing service levels to lyft, taxis, buses, cancelations.
More important to seek 100% utilization and never miss a ping than have high rates and lose market share.
Precisely. Forget about the driver (Uber does) and picture a car moving 24/7/365 generating fares 90% of the time the wheels are turning. THAT is what Uber is trying to achieve.
 
Precisely. Forget about the driver (Uber does) and picture a car moving 24/7/365 generating fares 90% of the time the wheels are turning. THAT is what Uber is trying to achieve.
That's why drivers are getting tossed and replaced, the more who are active and taking pings the closer Travass is to that goal. They have a lot of expenses for active pax and drivers who don't ping enough.
 
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I am still trying to wrap my head around how Uber thinks they can be more profitable by lowering rates an therefore the commission they receive.
It's actually quite simple...Profit ratio vs volume...

Company A sells 10 cars per year, but they make $1,000 profit per car.

Company B sells 100 cars per year, but they make $100 profit per car.

Both companies make $10,000 per year. Uber will actually win more customers over will lower rates, and thus will end up making more money in the long run. In a perfect "Uber" world every person in the whole world would use Uber and every person in the world would be an Uber driver.

The part of the idea of "If you lower rates you make more money!" that is flawed is this:

As a driver, you can still only take 3 trips per hour (on average). Sometimes you can squeeze 4 if you're taking short trips, but it's safe to say 3 per hour is about the max per hour. So, even if you have the entire world taking Uber, as a driver, you can still only get 3 rides per hour. And if those 3 riders per hour are at $1.15 per mile versus .65 cents it makes a big difference.
 
Right.
If Uber thought it was feasible to charge .10 per mile as long as jabrones still destroyed their car for it and they approached that 100% service level, they would.
Detroit is the "how low will they go" proving ground.
Keep your parachute cord at the ready.
I don't think it's a bad business idea to test out pricing in different areas (especially low income areas like Detroit where gas is a lot cheaper, too). It makes sense to have different pricing around the nation, but obviously .30/mile is just too low.

We can't compare the San Francisco market to Detroit, though. It's entirely flawed.

SF is literally the most expensive place to live in the United States. And people make 100k income like it's nothing. It's filled with tons of millionaires. Gas prices are incredibly high, here.

Detroit, is...Well...Detroit.
 
The drivers actually have less control over the overall price of a trip because they don't have a trip estimate option like the pax. The pax know how much the trip is likely to cost them and can decide to take it or not based on that information. If they "lose" money, based on the assumption that they are paying more than the trip is worth (or "should" be worth) that is by choice. If they choose not to take it they may be stranded, but more likely they will simply have to wait a little while for the surge to go down.

They are given a lot more information than the driver.

The driver doesn't even know how long the trip is, may be unable to determine an accurate eta or mileage to pickup in the time given, and certainly is not given a trip estimate. He may (and on many short trips that are not close to him) lose money, but has no way of knowing until he arrives at the pickup point.

If he then decides to not take the trip he has already lost money. In my market if the rider cancels or is not there he has lost money (no cancel fee). And in those cases, even if it was surging he is losing money.

If he refuses too many, unlike the pax his consequence could be job loss or at least, a timeout. This happens even if he is offered ONLY money losing trips which he refuses.

The pax can attempt to control the surge by turning off the app en mass, just as the drivers can attempt the same by going offline.

But Uber can turn on the surge if they want, or turn it off or cap it (as they do now during declared emergencies). Neither pax nor drivers can really know when or if they do that. However, the wording of the reason for surge implies that they do. "FARES HAVE INCREASED TO GET MORE DRIVERS ON THE ROAD."

Drivers don't control the price any more than I do the price of gas at my local gas pump. Sure, it MAY go down if enough people decide it's too expensive, just as surge may go up if the drivers don't take trips. But when the gas price does change, I really won't know for sure why it did, just as the Uber driver doesn't know if anything they did changed the surge.

Saying drivers collude to raise the surge is no different than saying riders are colluding to lower it when they refuse to pay the high surge price.

I think by putting himself at odds with the drivers Travis has only made his position worse. Put 10 drivers on the stand and 9 will say they'd be happy to cap the surge but raise the regular rates to something more reasonable. The 1 who disagrees will come across as an idiot to any judge anyway. The drivers are unwilling participants in any price fixing going on. If they COULD fix the prices they'd be higher overall with less surge.
POST # 159/Fuzzyelvis : To my Esteemed
#2 Notable Neighbor
I can only offer a humble "Amen, Sister!"
 
Which they will...
Google will have much lower costs, they could raise drivers and lower pax rates significantly for people to switch.
 
And it isn't a terrible idea so long as they plan to create a monopoly and then jack up their pricing haha
POST # 194/JMBF831: Yeah .....too bad
that Emperor @$$hat
is Hellbent on Destroying Lyft and the
Taxi Industry ONLY BY #[F]Uber being
"...as Cheap and Reliable as Running H2O."

"Misanthropy on Parade" is the Article
about #Travis K. Whatapr♤♡k! that THIS
MEMBER would like to see a Journalist
"Tee Off" on.
 
Google will have much lower costs, they could raise drivers and lower pax rates significantly for people to switch.
"WILL"...
"IF"...
by "THEN"... I'll be long buried.

Good to know our sweatshop labor will make the world a better place in the future.

Detroit is the "how low will they go" proving ground.
That's actually a myth.
If you compare driver's earnings on a min fare ride and a ride of 3 miles and a ride of 10 miles in Detroit to Cleveland, they are very similar.
Everyone (including me) points only to the CLE $.77/mile vs the DET $.30/mile and ignores the CLE $.13.minute vs the DET $.30 minute.
In city driving it takes more than 2 minutes to drive 1 mile...
that makes Detroit's fares $1.37/mile vs Cleveland's $1.80/mile.
It takes only a small difference in the avg speed in the cities to close that gap -
and it definitely takes longer to drive one mile in the city of Detroit than in the city of Cleveland.

Detroit, it appears in reality, is not a test of 'how low can Uber go' -
it is a test of how and where to put the emphasis of the fare: on miles or minutes
.

Let's also remember that there is politics in play in Detroit: Uber and Lyft were both courting the major US car manufacturer's for investment $. GM put its $$ in Lyft (and I'm sure Kalanick saw that coming long before it was made public)... so, since everyone only talks about the Fare per Mile': drive down the fare per mile in Detroit to to bury Lyft in GMs frontyard.
 
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POST # 194/JMBF831: Yeah .....too bad
that Emperor @$$hat
is Hellbent on Destroying Lyft and the
Taxi Industry ONLY BY #[F]Uber being
"...as Cheap and Reliable as Running H2O."

"Misanthropy on Parade" is the Article
about #Travis K. Whatapr♤♡k! that THIS
MEMBER would like to see a Journalist
"Tee Off" on.
Your esoteric cataloging system continues to amaze, only to be complement by your superlative comments.
 
The funny part of the rate increase is they didn't have to do it. It was probably an attempt to expand the market get more people with cars not to use them. In economics they are called elasticity studies. Make percentage adjustments in price to illicit corresponding adjustments in demand
However the blowback from the maneuver apparently was not worth it The customer didn't want it.They from all the comments I've heard think we are not charging enough
Our service beats cabs hands down
From what I've heard it's temporary due to the winter slowdown.We will see personally I will just stop driving if it's not worth the time no hard feelings. I'll be back when it's worth the time. I like 9 out of 10 rides. Right now though it's been good most days especially when I drive early. Of course I wasn't here before the cut.Then again my financial needs are pretty small compared to a lot of people I live a simple life and like that way
 
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