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If the politicians had any balls to enforce the laws, Uber would have disappeared already.

The tipping button is an ego thing.
I think it is about CONTROLL.
BOTH real and symbollic.

Uber wants to be " the Hand that Feeds".

But legally they want to be an App. CO. And middleman.
 
Why are you uberring with a masters in finance?

Is it that rough out there, or are you doing this for kicks?
I am semi-retired. I work part-time as a controller for a boutique investment banking firm. I also get sales commissions when we close a deal. The "day job" pays the mortgage, earnings on my savings pay the monthly bills, and Uber is pocket money. I will admit that for me Uber is a mindless way to sit on my ass, get out of the house on weekends, and interact with people. But lately, if I cannot net $20.00 per hour after expenses, I will not drive. I have other hobbies/interests that make me money.
 
Coincidentally, I just received a tip to add on to the life changing, less than minimum wage earnings (before incentives) that I made today. Can't riders see our faces when we get pinged? So, those cancels I've gotten just after accepting a ping, those were because I'm Black? I chalked it up to maybe they weren't ready, or were waiting for a cheaper fare or something else I don't care about. Has to be, because race hasn't played much of a factor in any rides that I've done, but if there are that many biased riders, they have to be the ones canceling on me. Either that, or this is a dirtbag, scummy company. Just say "We don't believe in topping, and it goes against our values". No problem. This other stuff is nonsense.
Maybe ,the racist riders are riding with you on purpose . . .
 
I semi-retired. I work part-time as a controller for a boutique investment banking firm. I also get sales commissions when we close a deal. The "day job" pays the mortgage, earnings on my savings pay the monthly bills, and Uber is pocket money. I will admit that for me Uber is a mindless way to sit on my ass, get out of the house on weekends, and interact with people. But lately, if I cannot net $20.00 per hour after expenses, I will not drive. I have other hobbies/interests that make me money.
I actually think it's good that people with corporate/finance background such as yourself have an inside look at the way that Uber works on the ground. It's terrible that none of their upper management seems to care.
 
Whoa, buddy........free market argument is only used when you want to break all the laws starting up your service.

After that, you want to control everything about the drivers, the passengers, and the fares.

Free market my rear, crony capitalism.

Where's my campaign donation?

Or $650,000 speaking fee?
Whoa - Don't knock a Milton Friedman follower.

Tips are earned by hustle.

If I load and unload your luggage on an airport run, I have earned a tip (I usually tip drivers $5.00 per bag).
If all I do is pop the trunk, I did not earn a tip (I will simply tip $5.00 to that driver).

My "Free Market" comment had to do with how much hustle drivers are willing to do for tips vs what passengers are willing to pay.

If you provide old-school 5-star service (meaning "Excellent Service" by going above and beyond what is simply required), you have earned a tip based on what the market (passenger) will bear.
 
Whoa - Don't knock a Milton Friedman follower.

Tips are earned by hustle.

If I load and unload your luggage on an airport run, I have earned a tip (I usually tip drivers $5.00 per bag).
If all I do is pop the trunk, I did not earn a tip (I will simply tip $5.00 to that driver).

My "Free Market" comment had to do with how much hustle drivers are willing to do for tips vs what passengers are willing to pay.

If you provide old-school 5-star service (meaning "Excellent Service" by going above and beyond what is simply required), you have earned a tip based on what the market (passenger) will bear.
I always load and unload bags
No one will EVER get a hernia at MY trunk!
I have seen riders tip the bellboy at the hotel,then not tip me.
I usually take the bags from the bellboy and load them,or hand them off to the bellboy.
Most 5 star hotels and restaurants have attendants to open and close doors. I do not do this.
Safety is my issue.
Pax has less chance of stumbling into traffic if not behind my car.
No chance of hernia.
No chance of back injury.
At airport,I place their bags on sidewalk.this gets them out of traffic.
 
I actually think it's good that people with corporate/finance background such as yourself have an inside look at the way that Uber works on the ground. It's terrible that none of their upper management seems to care.
That is ironic. I understand why Uber is playing games with rates/guarantees. They are simply trying to figure out each market's Marginal Cost and Marginal Revenue curves. A business achieves maximum profitability when Marginal Cost equal Marginal Revenue. Then you add in the fact that most consumer-based demand curves are actually "Kinked" with a inelastic range (think gas prices between $2.25 and $3.00) and it complicates matters.

What I do not understand is TK's aversion to tips. Tips are a great way to keep driver's expenses down while still allowing them to earn a decent living. Tipping patterns can also be analyzed to determine the true 5-star drivers. (Drivers who earn more than two standard deviations in tips are 5-star drivers, drivers who earn more than one, but less than two standard deviations are your 4-star drivers, drivers who earn between negative one to one standard deviations are your 3-star drivers, etc.)

Sorry to dump the Econ lesson on everybody. Sometimes I like to exercise my brain...
 
I always load and unload bags
No one will EVER get a hernia at MY trunk!
I have seen riders tip the bellboy at the hotel,then not tip me.
I usually take the bags from the bellboy and load them,or hand them off to the bellboy.
Most 5 star hotels and restaurants have attendants to open and close doors. I do not do this.
Safety is my issue.
Pax has less chance of stumbling into traffic if not behind my car.
No chance of hernia.
No chance of back injury.
At airport,I place their bags on sidewalk.this gets them out of traffic.
That's because of Uber's brainwashing...

I am old-school. I even tell my company's traveling sales staff to tip Uber drivers.
 
Whoa - Don't knock a Milton Friedman follower.

Tips are earned by hustle.

If I load and unload your luggage on an airport run, I have earned a tip (I usually tip drivers $5.00 per bag).
If all I do is pop the trunk, I did not earn a tip (I will simply tip $5.00 to that driver).

My "Free Market" comment had to do with how much hustle drivers are willing to do for tips vs what passengers are willing to pay.

If you provide old-school 5-star service (meaning "Excellent Service" by going above and beyond what is simply required), you have earned a tip based on what the market (passenger) will bear.
I wasn't knocking you at all.

I believe in that service.

I'm knocking Uber that preaches FREE MARKET when they want to crash an industry, but refuse to abide by the same standard when it doesn't suit them.

That's what I call BS.
 
I wasn't knocking you at all.

I believe in that service.

I'm knocking Uber that preaches FREE MARKET when they want to crash an industry, but refuse to abide by the same standard when it doesn't suit them.

That's what I call BS.
Thanks for the clarification.

Both free markets and regulations can be abused. One lets an economy grow, but relies on caveat emptor. The other can choke growth to just above stall speeds, but makes people feel safer. But as we both know, the only real difference between the two is whose palm gets greased to keep things moving.
 
That is ironic. I understand why Uber is playing games with rates/guarantees. They are simply trying to figure out each market's Marginal Cost and Marginal Revenue curves. A business achieves maximum profitability when Marginal Cost equal Marginal Revenue. Then you add in the fact that most consumer-based demand curves are actually "Kinked" with a inelastic range (think gas prices between $2.25 and $3.00) and it complicates matters.

What I do not understand is TK's aversion to tips. Tips are a great way to keep driver's expenses down while still allowing them to earn a decent living. Tipping patterns can also be analyzed to determine the true 5-star drivers. (Drivers who earn more than two standard deviations in tips are 5-star drivers, drivers who earn more than one, but less than two standard deviations are your 4-star drivers, drivers who earn between negative one to one standard deviations are your 3-star drivers, etc.)

Sorry to dump the Econ lesson on everybody. Sometimes I like to exercise my brain...
I don't think Uber is trying to figure out each market' marginal cost, they already know that it is almost zero.Uber can make a profit by simply charging the booking fee. This is not a standard business model, Uber is a middle man in the transportation industry but with full control of all aspects and no direct cost for transportation of riders, in fact that is free for Uber. They can slowly lower the rates to half of what they are now (just like they have done before) and still make money and if they want even more they can increase the percentage that they get from the fare (just like they have done recently).
So let's imagine the year 2018:
Minimum wage, $12.00
Gas prices in CA, about the same as now, fluctuating between 3 an 5 dollars per gallon.
Uber's booking fee, $2.50.
Charge per mile, 75 cents
Charge per minute, 12 cents
Minimum fare, $2.00..
Uber's cut, 35%
If you think this is a fantasy, look at the same numbers from 2014 and compare them with today'so numbers.
 
I don't think Uber is trying to figure out each market' marginal cost, they already know that it is almost zero.Uber can make a profit by simply charging the booking fee. This is not a standard business model, Uber is a middle man in the transportation industry but with full control of all aspects and no direct cost for transportation of riders, in fact that is free for Uber. They can slowly lower the rates to half of what they are now (just like they have done before) and still make money and if they want even more they can increase the percentage that they get from the fare (just like they have done recently).
So let's imagine the year 2018:
Minimum wage, $12.00
Gas prices in CA, about the same as now, fluctuating between 3 an 5 dollars per gallon.
Uber's booking fee, $2.50.
Charge per mile, 75 cents
Charge per minute, 12 cents
Minimum fare, $2.00..
Uber's cut, 35%
If you think this is a fantasy, look at the same numbers from 2014 and compare them with today'so numbers.
Well, not quite...

Uber very much has Marginal Costs: driver incentives, recruiting/referral fees, advertising, placement, regulatory, insurance, support staff, software development, computer centers/cloud, etc.

All I was stating is that Uber is running multiple experiments to figure out what mix will result in maximum profitability. We here in Los Angeles seem to be at the leading edge of these experiments. True, Uber is pushing the expense of rider to the driver; but so does the taxi industry (taxi drivers are independent contractors who lease the cabs, pay for gas, split the fares, etc).

What you outlined is a forecast of 2018. Yes, it may play out that way, or it may play out differently, time will tell. But what you outlined is what may happen to the driver. I was speaking academically from the perspective of Uber. Like all drivers, we need to know our real per mile cost of driving and set thresholds on when we feel it is best to drive. As I stated before, my threshold is $20.00 per hour after expenses. But we also need to factor in the intangibles. I am a little burned out on finance and academia. For me, making $20.00 an hour sitting on my ass, driving around a city I love, and talking to new people for 15 hours a week is a great gig. Would I want to work at In-n-Out for $15.00 an hour, on my feet for a shift, with no flexibility, no. If I needed the cash, I would still rather do Uber than fast food.

What we all need to remember is that we do not have to work for Uber. True, many drivers want to work for Uber and wish Uber would treat "The Partners" better. There are many full-time drivers in this forum, and I respect and learned much on how to maximize my profitability from their advice. I also hope that Uber's experiments do not make it so awful that Uber's best, the long time / full-time drivers, decide to quit. Even though I understand "Why" Uber is acting the way it does, that does not mean I "Like" the way Uber manipulates both riders and drivers.
 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...016/04/27/uber-resists-adding-tipping-its-app/BNEfLpo8dLcfC9czdcvtzI/story.html

Uber, facing a chorus of criticism from its drivers for refusing to add a tipping function to its app, is mustering a provocative argument:

Tipping is inherently unfair because of customers' unconscious racial biases.

class-action lawsuit by drivers who alleged unfair wage and labor practices. As part of the settlement, Uber has agreed to clarify that tips are not included in its fares - an important concession that drivers hope will prompt more passengers to add a gratuity.

But even though its smaller rival, Lyft, already offers a tip function, Uber has no plans to include one. A spokesman referred to a 2008 study by two Cornell University professors that analyzed data on tipping practices in restaurants and concluded "consumers of both races discriminate against black service providers by tipping them less than white service providers."

Uber also pointed to a 2014 Bloomberg analysis that uncovered puzzling variations in the tips paid to New York City taxi drivers. Among other statistical oddities, the research found that larger fares that ended in the digits 0 or 5, such as $40 or $55, earned cabbies far smaller tips, on average, than similar fares that happened to end in other digits.

The Uber spokesman, who declined to make a company official available for an interview, said introducing widespread tipping would make drivers' overall compensation dependent on those same racial biases and apparently random psychological effects. The net result, he said, would be a discriminatory system in which two drivers who perform the same work could receive substantially different wages - not because one provided superior service, but because one was black, or unluckily had fares ending in 5s and 0s.

there's no need to tip." Some drivers complained that creates a misperception that they do receive tips from the company, when in reality, they receive only the fare, minus the 20 to 25 percent cut that Uber takes.

A spokeswoman for Lyft, whose fares in Boston are slightly lower than Uber's, declined to answer questions about potential bias in its app-based tipping system. She said customers have given its drivers more than $85 million in tips over the years.

"Lyft has had tipping since the beginning," she said. "We wanted passengers to have a way to show their appreciation to drivers who go above and beyond to give a great ride or be extra helpful, since so many of them do."

While the Uber settlement allows drivers to solicit cash tips without fear of being removed from its the network, drivers worry that customers who are used to a seamless, cashless experience will balk if the ask is too aggressive.

Seaton said she's noticed both drivers and passengers are switching to Lyft. If Uber added the feature, she said, it would modestly boost her income and help Uber retain more experienced drivers.

"Everyone involved would be happy," she said.
I believe black drivers will accept the challenge of racially biased tipping.
And look forward to using this tipping as an educational tool to cleanse the country of any remaining bias.
Tip away .
Travis,TOGETHER we can overcome tipping bias.

Now,where else does Uber rely on other groups studies in running it's business ?
Certainly not in regard to driver pay . . .
 
Let's face it. Uber will make up any excuse or lame reason to discourage riders from tipping. Like I've mentioned in some of my posts already, uber get's a tip for themselves, only it's labeled as a "booking fee". They can raise or lower them any time they want. Remember when it started off as $1 across the board, and some places like Detroit they're up to $2.30. All of which goes to uber. Pathetic.
 
Let's face it. Uber will make up any excuse or lame reason to discourage riders from tipping. Like I've mentioned in some of my posts already, uber get's a tip for themselves, only it's labeled as a "booking fee". They can raise or lower them any time they want. Remember when it started off as $1 across the board, and some places like Detroit they're up to $2.30. All of which goes to uber. Pathetic.
The "booking fee" is $2.40 here in the Inland Empire (50 miles east of L.A.)
 
statistics prove that blacks are more prone to robberies and murder. so is uber really saying to not give blacks rides? don't blacks need rides too? new low for uber. this is racist of uber to use statistics to ensure that we do not pick up people due to color and to make sure blacks don't get tipped at all.
 
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