[HoldenDriver]

If you are as angry as I am about Uber tracking your speed and braking, there is actually something that you can do.

1) Send a support ticket to Uber requesting to opt-out of being tracked for speed and braking, and note that you feel your phone may not track this information accurately.
2) Each and every time you get a report of sub-standard speed, or braking, that you have a good faith belief is false, open a new support ticket and request to dispute the information in that report.

At some point, Uber will tell you to stop opening new tickets. At which point, they will have to assure you that the information therein cannot be used against you. Uber has not said that yet, they have said it could come up in a reactivation hearing or if a passenger reports you. If Uber does not allow you to dispute the information in those reports - that is a violation of the Uber agreement, as it would be to terminate you as a driver for notifying them of such.

If just one in ten Uber drivers did this, it would add tens of thousands of support tickets weekly - and force Uber to offer an opt-out.

Please join me in being part of that one in ten drivers that starts doing this. It will pressure Uber to offer an opt-out, and if anything, cost Uber far more than they anticipated - all while complying with the terms.

 

[HoldenDriver]

I object in general to Uber tracking my braking, which phone GPS does not track well. I research GPS radios for a living as part of my day job, and using accelerometer and GPS data from a smartphone to analyze that is often incorrect and unreliable. Especially when aggregated over thousands of different devices, firmwares, and calibrations - as you will find on Android.

Seriously, are you that bad of a driver that these reports concern you?

Seriously, do you want Uber to keep track of you - especially when it's likely inaccurate a considerable part of the time?

Let's keep the sarcasm in this thread a tone lower.

 

[HoldenDriver]

I think it is pretty accurate. Good enough where my wife did not believe the fairly good report I received. Sure, it is orange for both, but she figured it would be much lower than 80% for me. As for speed, really, bubble came up for 85 and you were doing 70 or less? Every time for me, hear that bubble and look at my speed..guilty.

Speed is accurate because GPS units are battled tested for that. My concern is mostly the braking, which from my own tests I have found to be highly inaccurate.

And again, just because your phone has accurate GPS, doesn't mean Uber drivers who are using $50 Android phones will have the same experience.

I again encourage anyone that finds the data to be inaccurate to report it each and every time in a new ticket to Uber.

 

[HoldenDriver]

It costs them literally nothing to ignore you

Not true. At all. They have to read every ticket and decide what to do with it.

Imagine tens of thousands of dispute tickets each week. That adds up to real-world, non-trivial costs.

Plus they then can't say "everyone's fine with it and all the data is accurate" without noting that a considerable number of drivers have raised persistent objections - without fear of reprisal.

 

[HoldenDriver]

Machines read our tickets. 100s of thousands a minute are feasible. What reprisal? People writing complaint tickets?

If you file a lot of complaint tickets, Uber could deactivate you. The terms however do not allow termination due to filing a dispute ticket.

Machines do read our ticket, but responses are written by real people. The tickets merely sort. Even if someone has to take a half-minute to decide what copy-paste reply to post in, multiply that by tens of thousands of weekly tickets.

It only works if enough people do it, but it would work. And your claim it would cost Uber nothing is not true, it would have a tangible impact on their support system.

 

[HoldenDriver]

So why would you make them do more work and cause them to raise commissions higher? Seriously, are you one of the people that would take prepaid return envelopes, stuff with junk and mail them to credit card companies? Just drive for Lyft. Why stress so much about this?

Two reasons - One, it is information any court could subpoena and use against you even in a personal car accident, years later. Two, it's an intrusion in privacy.

As to your rest, I disagree that it is the same as "stuffing an envelope" but you obviously don't support this idea, and you've made your reasons clear. I think it's an effective strategy if enough drivers did it.

P.S. Lyft is not in my area, have no choice but Uber or no Uber. I chose to Uber and be bitter.

 

[HoldenDriver]

Ok....so how do you deactivate the accelerometer?

I'll expand on that one. I suspect they're relying on GPS. They may also be using the accelerometer and the compass, but I suspect it's probably GPS itself.

To be clear, Uber says they are using GPS. I do not know if they include other sensors in that claim - or if it's just the GPS sensor. I suspect it is just GPS.

Unfortunately, if I am correct that it is just GPS - there's nothing you can do. If you have a rooted Android phone, you could disable the compass and accelerometer - but killing GPS would kill Uber Partner from working.

Consumer GPS modules in phones today, are designed to be accurate to within 10 meters, but speed accuracy and especially rapid deceleration (braking) is far less accurate - and can vary widely between GPS modules, antennas, and implementations.

Most GPS implementations are more accurate than your car's speedometer. But sudden stops - that's where they vary the most. Uber isn't sharing the sensor data or algorithm they are using to base these claims - it will probably take a subpoena (or regulatory inquiry) to get them to divulge.

That's why dispute tickets each-and-every-time the info is incorrect, is all you can do.

 

[HoldenDriver]

How about you just drive better? You're delusional if you think half the people on these forums will actually listen to you and do this. And the number of drivers on this forum are a tiny fraction of actual drivers. You're not gonna get anywhere with this, just learn how to drive better and complain less.

Asked and answered. Even Uber admits inaccuracies can contribute to this report - so disputing it when in error is the proper thing to do.

Complain less? This is Uber, complain more.

 

[HoldenDriver]

And users app has a built in gps that you can't deactivate right?

They aren't using the user's app. Since people can request an Uber without even being in the Uber themselves, that wouldn't be practical. You can request an Uber from a PC or a friend's phone too.

 

[HoldenDriver]

When the orientation switch is turned off, I wonder if that also turns the accelorometer off, or just its functionality for that task? It would be nice to all disable the technology in our phones en masse so their project fails.

I am looking forward to the speed monitoring though. I think Im already risking loss of license due to my lead foot.

No, it does not. The sensor is still working for apps that call it. But again, I don't think Uber is using the accelerometer, just the GPS speed - and performing some calculation based deceleration data.

 

[HoldenDriver]

No, it informs. You only have the choice to not install.

That would be impossible.

I fail to understand why you think they're not using the accelerometer for something it was actually designed to do, and instead are using GPS location for something it's not designed to do, doesn't do well, and generates false values.

First, Uber says in the description that it is only using GPS.

Second, you can use GPS to measure sudden deceleration, and it is just not as accurate.

Third, the high diversity of devices - many of which lack accelerometers or at least reliable ones.

I stand by the claim - I don't think Uber is using the accelerometer for this. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[HoldenDriver]

Do they track the trip or track the whole time you're online ?

According to the description, the ratings are while on trip. I presume they are also logging the data while in Phase 1 / Online while not on trip, but just for their own internal use.

 

[HoldenDriver]

Wrong - Uber clearly state that they will be using accelerometer technology

How will this technology be used in Australia?

As an example of how this technology works, gyrometers in smartphones can measure small movements, while GPS and accelerometers show how often a vehicle starts and stops, as well as its overall speed.

By using this technology, we hope to be able to improve the trip experience for riders and drivers, helping to make our roads safer for everyone.

That is a very different copy from the USA post, which omits the accelerometer. I'm not sure if they're using different implementations, or if the USA version is omitting.

This does give me the idea of baking an Android device with the accelerometer neutered in firmware. Easy way to find out if it's being used or not.

 

[HoldenDriver]

What is a ticket? You mean send them an email?
To which address?

If you feel a report is inaccurate, go to Help -> Driving -> Other topic and report it in the Uber Partner app.

 

[HoldenDriver]

So in a nut shell, the solution is to bombard Uber with complaints based on drivers feelings. Ok I got it now.

Normally, doing that could get you deactivated. But if each report contains incorrect information, you have a right to dispute it per the Uber services agreement. Each and every time.

 

[HoldenDriver]

You don't have to have evidence to dispute. You just have to have bona-fide reason. If you see a poor braking score, and yet no sudden stops occurred en route, you have valid reason to object - and force Uber to process a ticket each and every day about it. It may become a copy-paste war on both sides, but that alone would force Uber to note when regulators inquire about ticket volume, that drivers are considerably contesting this information.

I also suspect Uber is doing this to claim their self-driving cars are safer than Uber drivers on the aggregate. They can't make that claim if we're all constantly disputing the accuracy of the data (with good reason to do so).