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Working as a Private Hire driver...and the Knowledge of London

3K views 55 replies 23 participants last post by  wrong way 
#1 ·
Disclaimer: this a genuine post, not a trolling attempt. I understand most commenters probably come here for the banter but I believe there are some knowledgeable people on this forum, too. I would be nice to get some comments that aren't cynical or condescending. (Racist comments will be ignored.)
I did not find a really relevant thread so I decided to pen one.
At the moment I am working as an administrative assistant (non-legal). While I enjoy doing it, the salary is probably less than what a hard-working and clever Private Hire driver earns. (In addition to that, our sector is going through changes. My job may not be around in 4-5 years time)
Let me reiterate that I respect both London Black Cad driver as well as Private Hire (PH) drivers. Driving for a living in London is not an easy job to do.
My questions to you are the following.
Those of you who do the Knowledge of London while also making a living as Private Hire drivers:
Do you think doing PH really helps you to do the Knowledge? Surely you get to know London's road better than those who don't drive for a living…but do you actually get enough time and energy to learn the individual runs if you already have to drive 50-60 hours per week just to make a living?
To those who already drive London Black Cabs :

  • Do you think the London Black Cab industry in 2020 is inclusive enough to accept a driver of a Romani Gypsy origin who does not speak with a cockney accent? (Before anyone starts off with racist comments, Bob Hoskins' mother was a Romani Gypsy from Germany. And there are a few more famous Brits with Romani Gypsy ancestors).My only reason to join PH is to make doing the Knowledge easier (and doing it by car, rather than by riding a motorbike). My other alternative is (I am inclined to choose this one) to sacrifice two mornings a week, do the runs on a cheap motorbike - and finish the Knowledge in about 4 years' time.

My main issue with doing PH (even for a short time) is security: having worked with the general British public previously while working in betting shop for a year in a rough part of southeast London - there is no way on earth I would drive the public without being separated from them by a safety glass partition and armed with CCTV cameras and voice recorders. Yes, I know you say over 99% of your passengers are reasonable…but the remaining 1% risk is still too much risk to take. (Add to this Brexit - the racist idiots are already out of control in the UK).
I believe with older cabbies retiring in droves, this time is just as good as any to start the Knowledge. There is seemingly enough places for new applicants to join.
My reasons for joining the Black Cab industry:
-Earnings: if they can earn the same amount with 40 hours driving that a PH driver earns with 60 hours driving - I think it's worth becoming a cabbie. Need to take a few hours off to take the kids to school? Want to take a whole day off to be present at your son's christening? I believe you can do that easily while driving a LBC? Can you really do the same if you driver a PH vehicle?
-Work-life balance and real self-employment: it appears to be the case with Black Cabbies, not so much if you do PH.

-Organization: there seem to be a real comradery between cabbies and a few places in London reserved exclusively for them. Also, effective trade union (which PH lacks for obvious reasons).

(A bit about me: 36-year old. Widowed, no children yet. British national, in the UK since 2004. A first-class Law degree in 2017, but have been unable to secure graduate employment in the Legal sector. Five years of driving experience, no points on licence. No criminal record.)

Any genuine advice would be appreciated.
 
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#6 ·
Need to understand both trade
I was minicab one of first Uber driver left in late 2014 got my green badge 2015
Ph industry has changed lot in recent years biggest problem is over saturated +78% and expenses ( ulez. Congestion charge. High insurance....)
Best example look what happens to 007 completely failed
My advice
If anyone tells you by doing ph to understand knowledge that completely nonsense
Knowledge very hard not easy need to be very committed.
the cheapest and best way to do it is bike not car
Specially now with delivery app you can do Knl mornings and work ( deliveroo. Ubereat ...) evening
The best place to ask how to do it not in Uber forum but in knowledge schools
 
#51 ·
Need to understand both trade
I was minicab one of first Uber driver left in late 2014 got my green badge 2015
Ph industry has changed lot in recent years biggest problem is over saturated +78% and expenses ( ulez. Congestion charge. High insurance....)
Best example look what happens to 007 completely failed
My advice
If anyone tells you by doing ph to understand knowledge that completely nonsense
Knowledge very hard not easy need to be very committed.
the cheapest and best way to do it is bike not car
Specially now with delivery app you can do Knl mornings and work ( deliveroo. Ubereat ...) evening
The best place to ask how to do it not in Uber forum but in knowledge schools
1 Good Luck
2 100% agree with Mo in regards to doing the KOL on a bike preferably 125cc maybe do full/part time couriering
 
#15 ·
I would like to get things in perspective.

When PH drivers say they earn £20per hour (or £11 net before tax) That is including the time they step foot out of house, including the breaks in between and until they step home.

Black cab drivers claim they take £30-40 per hour. Is that including all of the above when I mentioned, including sitting at taxi ranks and driving around for couple of hours with no street work? Please clarify so we can make sense of things. I would appreciate if BC don’t dodge this question as it’s important to understand if knowledge is worth doing.
 
#16 ·
I would like to get things in perspective.

When PH drivers say they earn £20per hour (or £11 net before tax) That is including the time they step foot out of house, including the breaks in between and until they step home.

Black cab drivers claim they take £30-40 per hour. Is that including all of the above when I mentioned, including sitting at taxi ranks and driving around for couple of hours with no street work? Please clarify so we can make sense of things. I would appreciate if BC don't dodge this question as it's important to understand if knowledge is worth doing.
We didn't dodge any questions i personally replied to all questions. Need to understand this is open public forum
How many black cab in YouTube Showing their earning = 0
How many Uber in YouTube showing their earning = 5 millions
don't worry when get your green badge you give us feedback
 
#19 ·
A first-class Law degree in 2017
My only reason to join PH is to make doing the Knowledge easier (and doing it by car, rather than by riding a motorbike).
My other alternative is (I am inclined to choose this one) to sacrifice two mornings a week, do the runs on a cheap motorbike - and finish the Knowledge in about 4 years' time.
"Two Mornings a Week" for 320 Runs with 640 Quarter-Miles. Never say never but I would be surprised if you passed in 4 years by ONLY doing two mornings a week..

Surely, the outcome of your endeavours would be obvious. Best to talk to the experts at Knowledge Schools 🥇 🥇 🥇
 
#20 ·
Is it worth doing the KOL in 2020? The wage sacrifice in order to get the badge to tap into a shrinking pool of customers. Meanwhile the vehicle costs £60k plus?

I started as a PH driver just 4 months ago. I've worked/ran PH companies for 12 years. Uber killed PH companies, Uber is killing the BC trade (hence the relentless protests).

Pre-Uber doing the KOL was well worth it. Now, the PH industry continues to grow and looks to future technologies (driverless cars) whereas the BC trade offers nothing to even suggest it may exist in a decade.

I would 100% go for the badge if it was worth it. But a huge gamble surely?
 
#23 ·
Is it worth doing the KOL in 2020? The wage sacrifice in order to get the badge to tap into a shrinking pool of customers. Meanwhile the vehicle costs £60k plus?

I started as a PH driver just 4 months ago. I've worked/ran PH companies for 12 years. Uber killed PH companies, Uber is killing the BC trade (hence the relentless protests).

Pre-Uber doing the KOL was well worth it. Now, the PH industry continues to grow and looks to future technologies (driverless cars) whereas the BC trade offers nothing to even suggest it may exist in a decade.

I would 100% go for the badge if it was worth it. But a huge gamble surely?
We heard this beautiful stories before millions times
Before i started KOL heard the game is dead then on KOL Uber came long heard Uber will finish BC in 5 years for good . After 8 years BC still very strong
I've had one best February ever usually it keeper time. The only think Uber is killing is itself PH industry and slaving it drivers, how long do think uber will keep taking 25% just matter of time when they get 5 years licence
Uber has reach peak now it the fall
99% of ph drivers no nothing about BC trade just keep guessing as usual with nonsense
 
#27 ·
There is no certainty in anything.
But your answers need to give a sense of direction to potential KoL students.
I think a majority of drivers don't have faith in Uber, but they are left with no choice as PH industry has been taken over.
Potential KOL students need to stop listen to uber drivers who know nothing in taxi trade and keep guessing the thing they know is ping pong and worshipping this blood sucker companies
Potential students need to ask questions to the ppll in the taxi trade not in uber public forum
 
#37 ·
The answer is do the knowledge and you will never regret it, yes you can do it by car as I know 3 friends who done it by car (night time) and 10 by scooter. a full time knowledge will take between 1.2 to 2 years. I was told by one of the examiner the record was 1 year by a polish guy in 2008. 2 days a week will take more than 4 years. driving as private hire will help you with knowledge, you have to have a discipline no matter how many times you spend on KLD to achieve the green badge you only fail if you gave it up. TFL only issue 18 months not anymore 5 yrs to online platform private hire operator (Uber Ola Kapten Bolt Kabbee Viavan BlaBaCar), the black taxi is here to stay unlike others their future rely on the investors & profit margin, they can pull the plug at any time. a 12 hrs earning in Uber = 7 hrs in Black taxi (and no worries of deactivating if a rider compline about you).
 
#40 ·
@kay12344 youve said that a couple of time. IMO exec drivers are just rubbish businessman. Yes you may have higher turnover in exec compared to an X, but you expenses are higher: cost of car, cost of petrol because of exec journeys being more long distance and more dead mileage, and the cost of petrol in an exec Mercedes.
 
#44 ·
What you will find in general is that a lot of self employed people will deliberately stay under the VAT threshold, some doing this by deliberately scaling back their turnover, others by deliberately misdeclaring their income.

However over the last 20 years the government have been slowly closing down all the "black economy" trades, they started with the construction trade, in that trade it is now damn near impossible to find a cash paying job with no records, in fact the government made it illegal (with heavy fines and or prison) to employ anyone who didn't have the correct paperwork to allow them to work in the UK.

As we move more and more towards a "cashless" society all the traditional "black economies" where "unaccounted for" cash was the traditional way of doing business will gradually be forced to reveal their true earning because electronic records are just that..records.

The Pub trade is an example of this bar staff were always good to get for a cash payment per shift under the counter, nowadays they have to go through the books and everything has to be legitimate, same with takings, because they are now taking more electronic payments than cash suddenly they are having to pay a lot more tax than they did before because they can't "forget" they took more than they declared.

Private hire, specifically local offices are another example of a "black economy" being closed down, operators were paid "rent" in cash and no-one knew exactly how many cars they had working, drivers took cash and no-one kept records so no-one knew how much cash they were taking. All gone now, Operators have to keep exact records of all drivers and all work undertaken, all this data is uploaded to TFL weekly where it's shared on request (read TFL's terms, you agreed to let them do this when you got licensed) with any interested agencies such as HMRC. Border Force, DWP etc.

This sort of thing is happening throughout many traditional "cash" industries, so should a plumber, electrician or any other self employed person tell you that the earnings are fantastic remember it's because they could "hide" a lot of it form the tax people in the past but going forward into the future that will become harder and harder to do, so figure this into your potential career choice.
 
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