[tomatopaste]

Uber first tried telling drivers they could only drive for Uber.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/04/technology/uber-lyft/index.html

That didn't work. Strike one.

Finally last year Uber was forced to settle a misclassification lawsuit, paid a huge settlement and had to stop deactivating drivers for low acceptance rates. Strike two.

But the misclassification battle is far from over and Uber continues to lose in court.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2110799-uber-loses-tribunal-as-court-rules-drivers-are-workers/

In the judgement ruling in the drivers' favour, it said: "The notion that Uber in London is a mosaic of 30,000 small business linked by a common platform is faintly ridiculous."

Similar arguments are taking place wherever Uber is operating. Last year, drivers in Massachusetts and California lobbied in court to be categorised as employees rather than independent contractors, but later settled for a cash sum instead.

In New York earlier this month, a court ruled that two fired drivers should be treated as ex-employees. However, the company has said they will appeal. Court battles over driver rights are still to come in Indiana, Texas, Florida, and Illinois.
​

Uber will eventually lose these lawsuits and will have the end to farce of calling drivers "contractors." When this happens they will no longer be able to charge these absurd low fares, and depending on the settlements, could put them under. Strike three.

Sir Tomato Paste is a well-known member

 

[Fubernuber]

They will eventually show destination and subsidize the unproffitable fares which will lead them to raise the rates. That will lead to pool riders going back to metro and their investors realizing uber is a taxi company which will also put upward pressure on proffit. There are a many car services in and around the nyc metro area that are substantially cheaper than uber on long fares. They lost the market on shorties. I am pretty sure some of these uber alternatives that are cheaper are involved in a money laundry opperation now. Some of them will send a lexus to drive you 15 miles to jfk for a flat 25$ while uber x quotes 42$. Uber turned a once proffitable industry on ots head. When nyc tlc moves against uber it will be the end game. It will happen at the start of the next economic downturn and i hope uber and the like are blamed for causing it in some part

 

[tomatopaste]

They will eventually show destination and subsidize the unproffitable fares which will lead them to raise the rates. That will lead to pool riders going back to metro and their investors realizing uber is a taxi company which will also put upward pressure on proffit. There are a many car services in and around the nyc metro area that are substantially cheaper than uber on long fares. They lost the market on shorties. I am pretty sure some of these uber alternatives that are cheaper are involved in a money laundry opperation now. Some of them will send a lexus to drive you 15 miles to jfk for a flat 25$ while uber x quotes 42$. Uber turned a once proffitable industry on ots head. When nyc tlc moves against uber it will be the end game. It will happen at the start of the next economic downturn and i hope uber and the like are blamed for causing it in some part

Yes, their only way out is to raise rates. So what are they waiting for? This 180 days of window dressing is just wasting time. Time which Uber does not have. Uber got to where they are by buying off politicians. Now these same politicians are feeling the heat and are going to be Uber's downfall.

 

[Fubernuber]

The heat will come when 50k uber drivers are unable to make ends meet, give up their tlc plates and go to welfare lines. Thats entirely in uber for executing their strategy in a way that is a death knell for most of their "contractors" in times of an economic downturn. And thats just in nyc. Will happen almost overnight. Politicians will quickly realize they messed up and that uber is a reducer ot our collective quality of life

 

[UBERPROcolorado]

Unintended results: if UBER is forced to treat drivers as employees the following will occur......1-drivers will be paid min wage. Tips could stay with the drivers but could be charged agaInst the hourly. 2- drivers would have a set schedule of 30 hours a week to avoid benefits. 3- the drivers would lose all rights to refuse a trip- drop a trip etc. I make about $28 an hour net but before taxes. With write-offs about about $24. If UBER is forced to treat us as employees.....the good drivers will lose big time. Think about it.

 

[tomatopaste]

Unintended results: if UBER is forced to treat drivers as employees the following will occur......1-drivers will be paid min wage. Tips could stay with the drivers but could be charged agaInst the hourly. 2- drivers would have a set schedule of 30 hours a week to avoid benefits. 3- the drivers would loose all rights to refuse a trip- drop a trip etc. I make about $28 an hour net but before taxes. With write-offs about about $24. If UBER is forced to treat us as employees.....the good drivers will loose big time. Think about it.

I am not advocating that drivers become employees. My objection is with Uber classifying drivers as contractors to avoid costs associated with employees. The judge ruled that Uber could no longer deactivate drivers for low acceptance rates because we are "contractors" fine. If we are contractors then they should not be allowed to hide information about the job before we accept it.

I don't want to be an Uber employee but I also don't want to pick someone up and drive them two blocks for 3 dollars, minus expenses. The current system in not working. Uber is losing billions every year and driver turnover is insane. Drastic changes have to be made or Uber's going to go **** up.

 

[Seahawk3]

The sad thing is at the Uber concept of pairing people via app instead of a dispatcher is a great idea instead of a smelly old cab you were getting a nicer vehicle. The problem is that they have become a Mainstay of cheap when in fact getting around via somebody else's vehicle whether a taxi or not has always been something that is out of the reach of poor people. I could see cab companies once the ride-sharing business fails if it doesn't change buying the technology and get rid of dispatchers.

 

[UBERPROcolorado]

I am not advocating that drivers become employees. My objection is with Uber classifying drivers as contractors to avoid costs associated with employees. The judge ruled that Uber could no longer deactivate drivers for low acceptance rates because we are "contractors" fine. If we are contractors then they should not be allowed to hide information about the job before we accept it.

I don't want to be an Uber employee but I also don't want to pick someone up and drive them two blocks for 3 dollars, minus expenses. The current system in not working. Uber is losing billions every year and driver turnover is insane. Drastic changes have to be made or Uber's going to go **** up.

I see what you are saying.

 

[Trafficat]

Uber is just trying to maximize profit to themselves. I doubt they think they can win all the cases... but they want to try to win as much as they can and delay as much as possible.

I agree it is likely they will be forced to show destinations eventually if they don't want to classify their contractors as employees.

I also feel that classifying Uber workers as employees would be a disaster to those of us who currently enjoy driving for Uber.

The only drivers who would benefit from such a classification are people who only drive for Uber because they are desperate and in over-saturated markets. And most of those people will lose their Uber jobs once Uber has to classify them as employees.

 

[steveK2016]

So you want to be an employee that must work times and locations strictly detailed by Uber? You think surges will exist in that world?

 

[tomatopaste]

The sad thing is at the Uber concept of pairing people via app instead of a dispatcher is a great idea instead of a smelly old cab you were getting a nicer vehicle. The problem is that they have become a Mainstay of cheap when in fact getting around via somebody else's vehicle whether a taxi or not has always been something that is out of the reach of poor people. I could see cab companies once the ride-sharing business fails if it doesn't change buying the technology and get rid of dispatchers.

Yes, Uber is far superior to traditional cabs. However Uber made several critical mistakes the will probably end up be fatal.
1. Saying they're a tech company instead of a taxi company bought them time but it is now catching up to them. And cab companies have a valid complaint. Uber IS a taxi company but has been allowed to skate on all the regulations that taxis have to follow. In the long run they would have been better off playing by the rules and work to get the rules changed.
2. Matching passengers and drivers via the app is much more efficient and user friendly, but it's not 50 percent more efficient. And in some aspects Uber costs more per mile to operate because cabs buy; gas, insurance, maintenance at wholesale prices while Uber drivers pay retail. All Uber had to do was pick the low hanging fruit. Instead they spend billions trying to scrounge all the putrid diseased fruit rotting on the ground.

 

[Nats121]

Unintended results: if UBER is forced to treat drivers as employees the following will occur......1-drivers will be paid min wage. Tips could stay with the drivers but could be charged agaInst the hourly. 2- drivers would have a set schedule of 30 hours a week to avoid benefits. 3- the drivers would loose all rights to refuse a trip- drop a trip etc. I make about $28 an hour net but before taxes. With write-offs about about $24. If UBER is forced to treat us as employees.....the good drivers will loose big time. Think about it.

Unintended results: if UBER is forced to treat drivers as employees the following will occur......1-drivers will be paid min wage. Tips could stay with the drivers but could be charged agaInst the hourly. 2- drivers would have a set schedule of 30 hours a week to avoid benefits. 3- the drivers would loose all rights to refuse a trip- drop a trip etc. I make about $28 an hour net but before taxes. With write-offs about about $24. If UBER is forced to treat us as employees.....the good drivers will loose big time. Think about it.

I agree with a lot of the points being raised here and I'll add another. Why should we be forced to allow 4 large men to pile into our cars causing extra fuel consumption and wear and tear on the vehicle for the price of 1 cheap fare which is too low for 1 rider let alone 4 riders.

Yes, Uber is far superior to traditional cabs. However Uber made several critical mistakes the will probably end up be fatal.
1. Saying they're a tech company instead of a taxi company bought them time but it is now catching up to them. And cab companies have a valid complaint. Uber IS a taxi company but has been allowed to skate on all the regulations that taxis have to follow. In the long run they would have been better off playing by the rules and work to get the rules changed.
2. Matching passengers and drivers via the app is much more efficient and user friendly, but it's not 50 percent more efficient. And in some aspects Uber costs more per mile to operate because cabs buy; gas, insurance, maintenance at wholesale prices while Uber drivers pay retail. All Uber had to do was pick the low hanging fruit. Instead they spend billions trying to scrounge all the putrid diseased fruit rotting on the ground.

You as well as the taxi companies talk about Uber skating regulations, but remember, taxis have a huge advantage over Uber, and that's the monopoly on street pickups. So it would be unfair for rideshare companies to have all the regulations of taxis but not the benefit of street pickups.

 

[tomatopaste]

I agree with a lot of the points being raised here and I'll add another. Why should we be forced to allow 4 large men to pile into our cars causing extra fuel consumption and wear and tear on the vehicle for the price of 1 cheap fare which is too low for 1 rider let alone 4 riders.

You as well as the taxi companies talk about Uber skating regulations, but remember, taxis have a huge advantage over Uber, and that's the monopoly on street pickups. So it would be unfair for rideshare companies to have all the regulations of taxis but not the benefit of street pickups.

What are street pickups? Is that a NY city thing? We can pick up passengers wherever they want to be picked up?

 

[Nats121]

What are street pickups? Is that a NY city thing? We can pick up passengers wherever they want to be picked up?

Not just NY. Only locally licensed taxis are permitted to pickup riders from the street without a reservation. Here in Arlington,Virginia, the fine is $1000 if an Uber driver or limo driver gets caught picking up a rider from the street who didn't order the ride ahead of time, such as ordering a ride thru Uber.

 

[tomatopaste]

Not just NY. Only locally licensed taxis are permitted to pickup riders from the street without a reservation. Here in Arlington,Virginia, the fine is $1000 if an Uber driver or limo driver gets caught picking up a rider from the street who didn't order the ride ahead of time, such as ordering a ride thru Uber.

Why wouldn't the pax just order an Uber? Only place I can see this being an issue is downtown in large cities where there are 500 Ubers on every block

 

[Nats121]

Why wouldn't the pax just order an Uber? Only place I can see this being an issue is downtown in large cities where there are 500 Ubers on every block

Some people may not want to wait for an Uber. They see a taxi driving by and they hop in.

 

[Mars Troll Number 4]

2. Matching passengers and drivers via the app is much more efficient and user friendly, but it's not 50 percent more efficient. And in some aspects Uber costs more per mile to operate because cabs buy; gas, insurance, maintenance at wholesale prices while Uber drivers pay retail.

It's actually cheaper to buy a fleet of company vehicles than it is to pay your employees to drive their own.

Depending on how many miles you drive it can be a LOT more money.

By the letter of the law employees MUST be paid minimum wage free and clear of all deductions.

So uber would need to...

Pay regular wages plus OT or have scores more drivers then they currently have while limiting them to 30 hours.

Pay them min wage (possibly even when on call)

Pay all their business mileage at 53.5c per mile (because it's a deduction)

That's getting a lot more expensive than a taxi company that can just rent taxis to all their drivers and on paper it's just a car rental deal...

 

[tomatopaste]

It's actually cheaper to buy a fleet of company vehicles than it is to pay your employees to drive their own.

Depending on how many miles you drive it can be a LOT more money.

By the letter of the law employees MUST be paid minimum wage free and clear of all deductions.

So uber would need to...

Pay regular wages plus OT or have scores more drivers then they currently have while limiting them to 30 hours.

Pay them min wage (possibly even when on call)

Pay all their business mileage at 53.5c per mile (because it's a deduction)

That's getting a lot more expensive than a taxi company that can just rent taxis to all their drivers and on paper it's just a car rental deal...

This is part of Uber's scam. Uber is using your car for free. That's why Uber has so much turnover because eventually drivers figure out it's barely worth their time even before the wear and tear on their car.

 

[Mars Troll Number 4]

This is part of Uber's scam. Uber is using your car for free. That's why Uber has so much turnover because eventually drivers figure out it's barely worth their time even before the wear and tear on their car.

When that detail catches up with them it's the end of the road...

 

[Nats121]

This is part of Uber's scam. Uber is using your car for free. That's why Uber has so much turnover because eventually drivers figure out it's barely worth their time even before the wear and tear on their car.

It wasn't like that five years ago. At that time the driver pay rates were high enough to gives drivers a decent profit even with their cars getting beaten up.