[sc00badiva]

What you should be earning in wages :-

From the ATO website
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Sma...R-Z/Taxi-drivers-and-operators---issued-2015/

End of find out more
Input benchmark - sales turnover
You can use this benchmark to:

• calculate your income
• compare your income against the taxi industry average
• check that records accurately reflect your income.

Income guide - taxi operator (per taxi)

Total kilometres travelled during year

150,000

Cents per kilometre rate - 2013

$1.30

Total fares (kilometres x CPK rate)

$195,000

Total shifts worked during year

500

Bailment arrangement (average percentage of total fares)

50%

Income from bailment (at 50% of total fares)

$97,500

Income guide - taxi drivers

Average shifts worked during year

225

Average kilometres per shift

300

Total kilometres travelled during year (average shifts x average kilometres travelled)

67,500

Cents per kilometre rate - 2013

$1.30

Total fares per shift (average km per shift x CPK rate )

$390

Total fares (total fares per shift x average shifts)

 

[turbovator]

The economics of fixed costs dictate that a hire vehicle has to be on the road earning 24/7 if at all possible. Or at least earning premium rates for a part of the weekly cycle. This necessitates multiple drivers per vehicle to spread these costs. I just can't see Uber lowest common denominator model surviving a regulatory overhaul to include it. Uber promote the casual and part-time benefits to U drivers, but when the Gov't piles on licensing and hire vehicle registration etc, only the 6o-80 hour week drivers will survive, and at Uber pricing, end up with a worn out wreck.

I'm from the states and I too am a ex
Uber driver. I read all the spot on quality posts on this thread an agree with all of it. Your posts reminded me of the following proverb " You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".Here in the states it' the same o same o as in down under. I saw an article posted to this site several days ago that has semi restored my faith in humanity. " Uber admits it has a driver retention problem". After reading your posts from down under and seeing the news that Uber drivers world wide are "waking up and smelling the coffee"it's just a matter of time for the Uber scam to crumble. It's a broken business model and it is in a steady and rapid decline. My readings of your down under posts have left me with one unanswered question. Could one of your Mates explain to me the Australian meaning of what a "cricket" going chirp chirp is making reference to? lol l

 

[UberPlates]

My readings of your down under posts have left me with one unanswered question. Could one of your Mates explain to me the Australian meaning of what a "cricket" going chirp chirp is making reference to? lol l

I can't find that 'chirp chirp' cricket reference, but maybe it was a sporting reference?
Australia has just lost The Ashes to England (sorry to remind everybody).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes

It's a real big deal down here. It would be like the USA losing to Canada in the Ice Hockey World Championships.
Actually it's worse than that even...

Of course, I could be completely off-track here with the 'cricket' thing (that wouldn't be a first)

Say G'day to The Boss for us! I love that guy...

[sorry if I steered this thread off-course, lots of valid points people]
_

 

[turbovator]

I can't find that 'chirp chirp' cricket reference, but maybe it was a sporting reference?
Australia has just lost The Ashes to England (sorry to remind everybody).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes

It's a real big deal down here. It would be like the USA losing to Canada in the Ice Hockey World Championships.
Actually it's worse than that even...

Of course, I could be completely off-track here with the 'cricket' thing (that wouldn't be a first)

Say G'day to The Boss for us! I love that guy...

[sorry if I steered this thread off-course, lots of valid points people]
_

Bruce S is from NJ as I am. He is def an icon here. I will say Cheers to a NJ Girl in your behalf too. Have a good one Matey.

 

[turbovator]

Bruce S is from NJ as I am. He is def an icon here. I will say Cheers to a NJ Girl in your behalf too. Have a good one Matey.

With additional thought to my original question. It has occured to me that the "cricket" is in reference to the game of cricket which I understand to be the national sport down under. With that in mind it just leaves the "chirp chirp"
that still requires an explanation. Later
Mate.

 

[g00r]

A SD licence that has a low initial admin fee (eg: tick a box on license renewal & pay small additional amount) then incremental charges proportional to the individual share drivers actual on road activity, not one cover all $22,000 per year Taxi License, nor a once off $40,000 HC License because this simply does not work with the causal nature of the share driving business model: market pricing like this forces share driving to lose something essential to what it is: part time, supplementary to income, low entry fee, low financial commitment as there is zero return on investment, we have nothing to sell when we finish up except beat up car which will probably need to replace for future private use anyway. It would be easy to implement a fee such as this.

The economics of fixed costs dictate that a hire vehicle has to be on the road earning 24/7 if at all possible.

What about, if the medallion/license/permit was electronic and was a token?
Current way to license a commercial vehicle, is with number plates. This identifies the operator and allows that car to operate 24/7 (exception for peak cab licenses of course)

Let's say that a ride share license was $5000. Fixed price like Victorian VHA plates.
The license was an app that you logged in to before you logged in to Uber/Lyft.
Every time you log in, it shows on screen a history of who has logged in/out and at what time.
The license could be shared amongst as many people as you want but only registered people could use that medallion (screened, licensed etc)
Only one person at a time could log in

So if 4 people bought in and spent $1250 each, that would mean:
- we have regulation
- license
- state control over who ride-shares
- a limit on number
- suits part timers
- transferable
- companies could pool them (5 licenses between 20 cars for example)
- license allows double login during peak times (fri 8 pm - Sunday midday)

Thoughts / flaws?

Ghostwren Ill finish that email today, but I think this is now a sizeable preview

 

[UberPlates]

What about, if the medallion/license/permit was electronic and was a token?

You're an ideas man g00r , I'll give you that!

 

[Ghostwren]

What about, if the medallion/license/permit was electronic and was a token?
Current way to license a commercial vehicle, is with number plates. This identifies the operator and allows that car to operate 24/7 (exception for peak cab licenses of course)

Let's say that a ride share license was $5000. Fixed price like Victorian VHA plates.
The license was an app that you logged in to before you logged in to Uber/Lyft.
Every time you log in, it shows on screen a history of who has logged in/out and at what time.
The license could be shared amongst as many people as you want but only registered people could use that medallion (screened, licensed etc)
Only one person at a time could log in

So if 4 people bought in and spent $1250 each, that would mean:
- we have regulation
- license
- state control over who ride-shares
- a limit on number
- suits part timers
- transferable
- companies could pool them (5 licenses between 20 cars for example)
- license allows double login during peak times (fri 8 pm - Sunday midday)

Thoughts / flaws?

Ghostwren Ill finish that email today, but I think this is now a sizeable preview

The idea I (call it LA license/app) put forward and yours (call it MA medallion/app) have pros and cons, I think yours is probably the strongest and best thought out, but the price point and co-ordination of the logins might get tricky.

Pros
MA has firm price deterrent
MA has road user level control
LA Concession/low price entry point attractive to Pollies as good for unemployment stats
MA physical medallion/plates is visible and easy for authorities to police
MA something to sell when business activity winds up
LA has no group diplomacy problem
LA has no networking issues
LA could have complimentary legislation to restrict congestion
LA has low production costs
MA double logins at peak times go some way to alleviate group co-ordination issue
LA charges directly linked to actual online time, charges are unique to the individual, so if you only want to drive once a month, or you decide to dramatically change your driving patterns, charges will always be fairly measured.
MA possible flexibility to buy and sell unused proportion of medallion and/or buy into other medallions if you need more on road time?

Cons
LA has weak entry control, (suggest concession entry point at lic renewal which would further weaken this)
MA entry price point might be disincentive to unemployed to sign up
MA networking tricky: what if you don't know any other drivers or do not wish to do business with the ones you do know?
MA group diplomacy/shifts might be tricky. What if you accidentally team up with beep beep?
LA has no inbuilt road user level control, but could be legislated? (NYC tried this but failed recently. Maybe if Mayor DeBlasio tried negotiating more realistically, it could have worked? May be not.)
MA physical medallion/plates cost money to produce
LA noting to sell at biz end
LA no external visible markings to to identify to police
MA one size fits all entry charge that does not adjust to changes in life circumstance, for example I might pay a quarter licence then only use it for a tenth, or alternatively, find i need half a licence.

I'll add to this list later....your thoughts?

 

[g00r]

An excellent analysis.

I was thinking that MA is primarily geared towards individual ownership.
You are right that it does create an entry cost, which in comparison to today's figures is infinitely greater.

I guess the purpose of regulation needs to be looked at. What is the goal? Pax safety primarily.
I argued the point with Thelma & Louise (T&L) that the uber platform itself does accomplish this quite well.

Taxi plates limit supply and protect the industry, however Uber uses a market force to achieve an equilibrium. Too many cars, profits drop, driver stops.

Order is restored.
Do we want regulations that put a minimum price on Uber? Or even worse, setting a maximum price?
Look at what happened with the GST. It cut everyone's bottom line. Fewer people logged in, prices for customers went up. Service was inpacted and the base price went up.
This kind of immediate reaction would not be possible with regulations in place.
I now find myself arguing against myself.

I think leave it unregulated. But if there must be regulations, be careful what you wish for; and
Physical licenses are outdated like rego stickers were

 

[Ghostwren]

An excellent analysis.

I was thinking that MA is primarily geared towards individual ownership.
You are right that it does create an entry cost, which in comparison to today's figures is infinitely greater.

I guess the purpose of regulation needs to be looked at. What is the goal? Pax safety primarily.
I argued the point with Thelma & Louise (T&L) that the uber platform itself does accomplish this quite well.

Taxi plates limit supply and protect the industry, however Uber uses a market force to achieve an equilibrium. Too many cars, profits drop, driver stops.

Order is restored.
Do we want regulations that put a minimum price on Uber? Or even worse, setting a maximum price?
Look at what happened with the GST. It cut everyone's bottom line. Fewer people logged in, prices for customers went up. Service was inpacted and the base price went up.
This kind of immediate reaction would not be possible with regulations in place.
I now find myself arguing against myself.

I think leave it unregulated. But if there must be regulations, be careful what you wish for; and
Physical licenses are outdated like rego stickers were

Safety needs to the primary concern, Pax and Driver....bringing the discussion round to insurance

More information required here: g00r, you must have some idea by now of the going rate for insuring UberX drivers? PM maybe?

and someone, please teach me how to tag!

 

[g00r]

Safety needs to the primary concern

But do you think govt regulation is the best way to achieve it?

Example:
Vehicle - your car is a piece of junk being held together by a few stressed bolts.
Current unregulated -
Passenger rates poorly/comments
Uber refunds rider and sends the car off for inspection

Taxis are regulated but they don't go as far as the 'chain of responsibility' that heavy vehicles have (something goes wrong, owner, manager, mechanic, driver, forklift driver all take a beating).
Taxis have a growing reputation for being shoddy.
You complain to the network "they're not our cars"
Complain to the umpire and a few weeks later you get a response.

Trying to report a driver in the regulated system is even worse.
Denying a passenger a journey based on their destination is against the law, unless that vehicle has a prior booking for a passenger with disabilities. That's the only exception. Unless they have a destination suburb on the pax sunvisor.
How many of them do it? Why isn't the regulator doing daily stings on this?

This is the chief complaint by Vic taxi users.
You try and pull thay stunt on Uber!
Someone posted a link today about a taxi association starting a negative ad campaign about Uber. (Paraphrased) "If the pax phone dies, they're screwed"
If I, when I uber decided I wanted to commit sexual assult. Let me hypothesize how I could do this and not get caught.

Pick up a guy (more relevant if I used a girl in this example, but that's just gross ), he's drunk and falls asleep.
I cancel the trip on his phone? Trip still remains on both our records.
I kidnap him, assult him, steal his phone and dump him in a ditch.
Logs on to his uber account, there's the record.
Pick up him and a few mates, requesting passenger gets out, I kidnap, assult his friend, murder him and I would have to drive past the guy's house without delay so the GPS log shows i delivered him.
Alternatively, don't take him home, assult him, bury him and say that he requested to get out here.
Well I can't stay logged in, cause I will get another ping.
Can't log out without explaining why I stopped working just after dropping the missing person off.

My point is, what is the problem that regulation will provide the answer to.

 

[Ghostwren]

But do you think govt regulation is the best way to achieve it?

Example:
Vehicle - your car is a piece of junk being held together by a few stressed bolts.
Current unregulated -
Passenger rates poorly/comments
Uber refunds rider and sends the car off for inspection

Taxis are regulated but they don't go as far as the 'chain of responsibility' that heavy vehicles have (something goes wrong, owner, manager, mechanic, driver, forklift driver all take a beating).
Taxis have a growing reputation for being shoddy.
You complain to the network "they're not our cars"
Complain to the umpire and a few weeks later you get a response.

Trying to report a driver in the regulated system is even worse.
Denying a passenger a journey based on their destination is against the law, unless that vehicle has a prior booking for a passenger with disabilities. That's the only exception. Unless they have a destination suburb on the pax sunvisor.
How many of them do it? Why isn't the regulator doing daily stings on this?

This is the chief complaint by Vic taxi users.
You try and pull thay stunt on Uber!
Someone posted a link today about a taxi association starting a negative ad campaign about Uber. (Paraphrased) "If the pax phone dies, they're screwed"
If I, when I uber decided I wanted to commit sexual assult. Let me hypothesize how I could do this and not get caught.

Pick up a guy (more relevant if I used a girl in this example, but that's just gross ), he's drunk and falls asleep.
I cancel the trip on his phone? Trip still remains on both our records.
I kidnap him, assult him, steal his phone and dump him in a ditch.
Logs on to his uber account, there's the record.
Pick up him and a few mates, requesting passenger gets out, I kidnap, assult his friend, murder him and I would have to drive past the guy's house without delay so the GPS log shows i delivered him.
Alternatively, don't take him home, assult him, bury him and say that he requested to get out here.
Well I can't stay logged in, cause I will get another ping.
Can't log out without explaining why I stopped working just after dropping the missing person off.

My point is, what is the problem that regulation will provide the answer to.

OK, every system has it's flaws, a knife is intended as a tool and can be a weapon. (didn't realise at time of typing but we regulate knives, cars, hunting and other weapons because their original intention can be interpreted). Taking some ideas to PM on good advice...cya there

 

[WAKE UP AUSTRALIA]

As far as I know, uberX driving remains an illegal activity in Victoria, as I believe it does in every state and territory in Australia.
Drivers take huge risks for little reward. Seek legal advice. If you are unsure of anything, I would advise you not to drive for uberX.

Wake Up Australia.

 

[Yearofthema]

The following rates for 2015-16 apply from 1 July 2015.
Taxable income

Tax on this income

0 - $18,200

Nil

$18,201 - $37,000 - 19c for each $1 over $18,200

$37,001 - $80,000- $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000

for anyone with a real primary job , should u be paying 32% of the fare as tax + 10% gst +20% uber commisson+ petrol + no insurance+ loose u centrelink benefits . uber only works for people who expect to earn less than 18200 /annum

And these people can't afford a car

 

[Sameshiftdiffday]

Hi Yearofthema- nice Avatar ! Is your uber car the one on the right or the left ?? Lol
Cheers SSDD

 

[UberRon]

Truth be known, let the Uber nomads rule. I just like all the other Uber drivers did it for a while and enjoyed it, the customers love it even more. Without the RISK takers, Uber and ride sharing in general would die in this great land of ours, we wouldn't want that would we...
GoGoGo Ubermaniacs help this fantastic transportation service become a legal alternative to the rundown and overpriced taxi system.

Ok 3 cheers if you agree.
Boo if you don't.

 

[Dean Farrell]

the taxis are dead !!! View attachment 11334 my prediction is that in 3 years time 70%of all the fares in Melbourne will be done by UBER or any future simular company and thats the reality...Now i am truly sad that some drivers feel that they are hard done by uber but there is no quiting after one month thats so not on...this platform has saved my family it is flexible and as long as u r smart about it u can make the money ....

Until Uber is allowed to do rank and hail work Taxis will not be dead. Uber will only be able to compete if it is legalised but then the whole industry will die due to a oversaturated market as there is no restriction on the plates released by the government. Legalising Uber will mean added costs to its drivers due to registration fees, compulsory commercial insurance fees etc. If Uber continues to illegally grow then Taxi drivers will start reporting Uber drivers to the VTD to save themselves...I see two Uber drivers working every night but have not decided to take any action but I know of others who have. If Uber does as you claim and achieves a 70% market share more taxi drivers will switch to Uber lowering your earning potential. Regardless of which way it goes the money will be shit as it always has unless a driver is willing to put in the hours, has a large personal client base as well being part of a private network and declares less than half of their earnings to the tax dept.

 

[SneakyPete]

Go and driver for Uberx you say it won't be a problem to anybody will it ? Meanwhile your neighbour who owns a taxi plate has just dropped 400K on its value. Your other neighbour who is a taxi driver is on 50% pay cut a week now because of Uberx !

Meanwhile 20% of all Uber transactions (Australian Money) are flowing overseas to an American Billionaire and staying there.

The passenger market is now flooded ( too many drivers ) meaning there is too little work to go around for everyone.

Do go and have a drive it surely won't be a problem ! ( not ).

 

[drivindad]

Go and driver for Uberx you say it won't be a problem to anybody will it ? Meanwhile your neighbour who owns a taxi plate has just dropped 400K on its value. Your other neighbour who is a taxi driver is on 50% pay cut a week now because of Uberx !

Meanwhile 20% of all Uber transactions (Australian Money) are flowing overseas to an American Billionaire and staying there.

The passenger market is now flooded ( too many drivers ) meaning there is too little work to go around for everyone.

Do go and have a drive it surely won't be a problem ! ( not ).

Yeh, maybe hurting my greedy neighbour who now will have his hand out for compensation, nobody gave my father compensation when technology killed his first business and for the second time when the great duopoly of Coles and Woolworths decided to open up in his area. So suck it up! I am sick of hearing about the poor old taxi plate owners.

 

[UberRon]

Go and driver for Uberx you say it won't be a problem to anybody will it ? Meanwhile your neighbour who owns a taxi plate has just dropped 400K on its value. Your other neighbour who is a taxi driver is on 50% pay cut a week now because of Uberx !

Meanwhile 20% of all Uber transactions (Australian Money) are flowing overseas to an American Billionaire and staying there.

The passenger market is now flooded ( too many drivers ) meaning there is too little work to go around for everyone.

Do go and have a drive it surely won't be a problem ! ( not ).

You too must be a one eyed taxi driver. You can't stop change and a change is coming. In the past many individuals have invested in small businesses only to get screwed by change a cheaper pricing as Drivindad states. Losers in the stock market, people have also invested in their education to learn trades only to get screwed by cheap imports and their jobs being made redundant. Many have lost jobs and are having a very hard time getting another, the list goes on. Suck it up I also say and join the the list. Life goes on.