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In your agreement with them, can you show where they say that you're guaranteed the majority of the surge?
Ugh... i shouldn't have used the word guarantee. They IMPLY it, just like just about everything else uber it's ambiguous. I never said it was in our terms of service. I don't know what is says regarding surge pay.

I just went back and looked and the trip receipts have been changed yet again. I know there are several screenshots posted on this site that include the language I'm referencing. I'm not going to look, I know it used to be there.

On longer surged trips, it used to say something like
Surge adjustment: $11.43 ( this includes the $4.00 surge plus $7.43 to ensure you receive a majority of the fare)
On some trips, in addition to the surge adjustment there would be a "share adjustment". With similar language in the description. (Trip was adjusted to ensure...)

My point is, I think it's a legit argument that Uber does not tell us which rides will be or are eligible for the added/adjusted surge. They get by with letting us know we are guaranteed at least $X.XX .

Last year, big event. $8-$12 surges. I picked up a long distance trip. $8.50 attached.

I was parked 2 miles or so away out of the surge area, I did this so I would know that the trip was actually surged if it came in with a surge.

I get the request, 45+ with the $8.50 surge attached. It was a 70 mile trip. When I completed it, all I got was the $8.50. The rider paid a flat rate. I'm not sure what happened, I'm guessing I had a surge attached prior or where i was parked had surged or it was uber manipulation, doesn't matter. I just know I got 8.50 a d no adjustment.

I've also had trips where I got adjustments well beyond what I was expecting. One I recall was a $6.00 surge. Trip was 6 or 7 miles. I got a surge adjustment and a fare adjustment. It wound up paying around $40.00 there was adjusted surge pay AND a share adjustment. I was only expecting $6.00.

They should have to tell us when a surged trip is eligible for adjustment. It should be the ToS.
We should always know exactly how we are going to be paid. Surged rides aren't random bonuses, the rates are changed and we have the right to know how much we're being paid at all times.

You don't go to work, clock in and get random hourly wages, random over time pay and random pay increases for random hours throughout the day. You know before you clock in, how you are being paid.

It's bs that uber doesn't always let us know. There should never be guessing, I do not see how it is legal to withhold this information, even when it is in our favor.

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In your agreement with them, can you show where they say that you're guaranteed the majority of the surge?
I found one easily. I was wrong it says significant not majority. As per usual, more ambiguity.

Regardless, we should never not know how we are being compensated. That is my argument.
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I know for a fact that Uber makes more than the drivers. Look at your cheap rides, we make 2.37 Uber makes 4.00+. Wake up!! We are getting sick and tired of being screwed over!! It's our cars, our rideshare insurance cost, our maintenance, our yearly tags. Most of all our car payments.
So, what are you going to do about it?
 

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We should always know exactly how we are going to be paid.
We do know "how we are going to be paid", we just know know "how much we are going to be paid".

I agree that we should know how much; I've said so twice already in this very thread...
AB5 is crap, but what I'd love to see is legislation that ALL drivers get up-front estimates and minimum guarantees of what the ride will pay and entail BEFORE they accept.

I've seen that they've done this in (some?) Cali markets.

Don't know if it was all Cali markets or if it's still being done, but THIS is how "real contractors" work - agree on a price and work to be done BEFORE work starts.
THAT should be what EVERY driver's acceptance screen looks like.
 

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only one thing matters: did uber pay you what they last agreed to pay you for time, mileage and other? Because if they did, the only party that can complain is the paying customer.
Sorry pal when I signed up the rates were 2.15 per mile and no one is getting that now 😂
 

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If you are "observing" something, do kindly show me where I stated "I am going to 'knock down' your position" or words similar.
Riiiiiiiight, because people using logical fallacies typically announce it, lol.:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's not how it works.

Besides, if you watched that video I posted for you, you already know that someone using logical fallacies doesn't have to be consciously aware that they are doing it.

Now you may have been doing it unintentionally/unaware you were doing it, the first time, but after being shown exactly how you were misstating my case, you continued to purposefully misstate it in the exact same way multiple times so as to refute it (btw, THIS is the observable fact I referred to).

I'm giving you the benefit of doubt for the first instance, but for the subsequent times, the principle of Occam's razor tells us that you likely did it intentionally (or you're an idiot. While I can't prove it, I do not believe you're an idiot.:inlove:)
 

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The rules around the world for employee and contractor are so simple.
When some one is getting paid per time for the task he/she has completed, then that someone is classified as employee.
As for contractor, the amount of money for the task should be offered upfront but it should not be based on estimated time he/she needs to complete the task and it should be fixed amount except honoring bonuses.
Model of Uber and Lyft payout are created by themselves and state authorities don't agree to it. So they are using AB5 to against it. Then Uber and Lyft really need to introduce another model.
 

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Reminder: We are paid per task (trip completed or cancelled).
Drivers are paid per time for a task. When a rider cancelled, drivers didn't get the fares he/she was supposed to get for the task. That is a broken breach of the task if drivers are ICs.
 

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Drivers are paid per time for a task. When a rider cancelled, drivers didn't get the fares he/she was supposed to get for the task. That is a broken breach of the task if drivers are ICs.
You are confusing an hourly wage with a per task rate that considers time as a component of the compensation. We are still paid per task.

The time and miles it takes to complete that task is what determines how much we are paid for that task.

You keep making the claim that because time is a component of our per task rate of pay, we are "hourly employees"; so please show me where any in effect law or the IRS says that the time it takes to perform a task can't be a factor in how an IC is paid.

As far as cancels, it's clearly stated in your agreement what happens when a rider cancels and how you are compensated. So long as U/L meet that obligation, there is no breach.
 

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Riiiiiiiight, because people using logical fallacies typically announce it,
.........except that you have failed to demonstrate it.........................

Yeah, that's not how it works.

if you watched that video I posted for you
What is the equivalent of "TL;dr" for a video?

, you already know that someone using logical fallacies doesn't have to be consciously aware that they are doing it.

after being shown
............except that I have not been "shown" anything.......................

purposefully
The only way that you would know that is if you could read my mind. If you consider it a safe bet that you would not know me if you saw me.............................
 

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We do know "how we are going to be paid", we just know know "how much we are going to be paid".

I agree that we should know how much; I've said so twice already in this very thread...
So you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Got it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 · (Edited)
Uber Lyft is no contractors, they are basically brokers with setting prices for riders and drivers , but price with surge drivers getting extra $3-5 bucks , while riders pay double or triple of original fare

For example short trip riders pay around $8, drivers $4, with surge 2X rider pay $16, driver paid $4 plus surge $2 or $4, with 3X surge rider pay $24 driver gets $3 to $6 additional... all we need is Fair Fare or be paid more while working during pandemic COVID-19
By the way Lyft doesn't show riders payment...
 

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So you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Got it.
No, I corrected you because you made a false claim (that we are guaranteed the majority of a surge fare), and then an incorrect statement (that we don't know how we are paid).

So I'm arguing for the sake of accuracy. Got it?
 

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Sorry pal when I signed up the rates were 2.15 per mile and no one is getting that now
sorry back. You agreed to an 'agreement' and that can be change by a single party with 30 days notice. One isn't forced to agree to go online and they can say 'hell no' and that will be that on that platform.
 

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No, I corrected you because you made a false claim (that we are guaranteed the majority of a surge fare), and then an incorrect statement (that we don't know how we are paid).

So I'm arguing for the sake of accuracy. Got it?
No, you didn't correct me.

Also, we do not know how the added/adjusted surge fare is calculated. We do not know on which trips it it is going to be applied. Therefore we do not know how our pay is calculated on every ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
I want return back surge when multiple 2x or 3x or 1,5x that will helps a lot specially with longer trips
 

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.........except that you have failed to demonstrate it.........................
LOL, I've literally "demonstrated" it every time you misstated my position and I corrected you.

To summarize:
Me: These people are incapable of being self employed. They should do something else, like drive a taxi, limo, truck, etc...
You: You said they should drive a taxi and be self employed. You can't be an employee where I am and drive a taxi. You are self employed. Therefore your position is flawed.
Me: No, my position is that these people shouldn't be self employed. Driving a taxi is simply part of a list of possible alternatives.
You: If you drive a taxi where I am and in other places, you are self employed. Therefore your position is flawed.
Me: ...but that's not my position; my position is that they aren't capable of being self employed and should do something else, NOT that they have to drive a taxi.
You: You said they could drive a taxi, but I'm telling you that they can't do that everywhere. Therefore your premise is flawed.
Me: That's a strawman argument because that isn't my position at all.
You: So you can read my mind?
Me: It's not mind reading, it's deductive reasoning.
You: You could only know this if you're reading my mind.
Me: *_*
Yeah, that's not how it works.
That's exactly how this works.
............except that I have not been "shown" anything.......................
LOL, I've literally "showed" it every time you misstated my position and I corrected you. (See "demonstrated" above)
Your continued failure to acknowledge/comprehend this, is part of your problem.
What is the equivalent of "TL;dr" for a video?
I don't know, but it's certainly telling that you think a TWO MINUTE video is "too long".
The only way that you would know that is if you could read my mind.
I already addressed this as well: there is no mind reading involved, it's simply the principle of Occam's razor. A perfectly acceptable tool used in deductive reasoning.

At this rate, I may have to rethink and quickly reverse this position though:
While I can't prove it, I do not believe you're an idiot.
So there you go, you may actually be able to prove me wrong on something. Congratulations.:thumbup:
 

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I've literally "demonstrated" it every time you misstated my position and I corrected you.
False..............

To summarize:
Your little "summary" put words on my keyboard. This helps you to make whatever case it is that you are trying to make.

That's exactly how this works.
That was actually something that you posted that got by me, I meant to edit out the sentence. There should be one clue therein that a guy who considers himself such a sage should see that would indicate to him that I did not type that.

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I've literally "showed" it
False.

it's certainly telling that you think a TWO MINUTE video is "too long"
Not only can you read my mind, but also you get to determine what is worth my bother, -eh?
.

At this rate, I may have to rethink and quickly reverse this position though:So there you go, you may actually be able to prove me wrong on something.
Name calling, even if indirect, is the last resort of those who do not have a point; whatever your "point" is.
 

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There is a simple solution if you don't like what Uber and or Lyft pay stop driving for them.

If enough drivers turn the app off maybe something will change. If not let Uber and Lyft fail for lack of drivers.

If one is really unhappy they could start their own company and pay the drivers more. Could another company compete and not go out of business? Hard to say, it would definitely be a struggle. Uber and Lyft both had intentions of going public, yo do that they had to increase market share and or volume. They did that by sacrificing driver loyalty and pay. They are not in business to make drivers money, they are in business to collect a pay check, bonuses, and possibly make shareholders money. Right now they are concentrating on shareholders because ultimately they will fund future pet projects and bonuses.
 

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and possibly make shareholders money.
...actually that is all Uber and such need to do. Everything else is secondary.
 
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