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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New rates:
Capture.JPG

Old rates:
rates.JPG


A true 10% increase would look like this:

$2.20 base, 38.5c per minute and $1.21 per KM

they think they can trick us by rewarding short trips: this is where the largest rate increase actually is.

The km rate is where the bulk of our income derives from and guess what?

the KM rate has only risen by 2.2%
 

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I make it a 4.5% rise - but yeah, it's still crap. Our old rates were $1.15/km and are now back to the pre-winter-crapfest of $1.30/km.

Of course with GST now applicable unless you drive a Barina and are tax-exempt, the real rates in Melbourne are:

BASE $2.13 + GST
Time $0.36 + GST
Dist $1.04 + GST

Of course you do get some of that GST back with GST credits for running your "business" <- And I use the term Business very lightly.
 

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So wait... Is Uber 'holding' the 10% GST or are they still taking their 20% cut from the increased fairs and pushing the GST risk onto the drivers?
 

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So wait... Is Uber 'holding' the 10% GST or are they still taking their 20% cut from the increased fairs and pushing the GST risk onto the drivers?
Uber is increasing rates by 10% (so they say - but in reality it doesn't work out to be 10%) and saying consult your accountant to see if you need to pay GST - if your accountant is older than 10 years old, he'll tell you that you have to pay GST. Unlike Uber, your 10 year old accountant knows you don't mess with the ATO despite the bullshit Uber spews about court action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I make it a 4.5% rise - but yeah, it's still crap. Our old rates were $1.15/km and are now back to the pre-winter-crapfest of $1.30/km.

Of course with GST now applicable unless you drive a Barina and are tax-exempt, the real rates in Melbourne are:

BASE $2.13 + GST
Time $0.36 + GST
Dist $1.04 + GST

Of course you do get some of that GST back with GST credits for running your "business" <- And I use the term Business very lightly.
People still don't understand what a rip off this GST input tax credit arrangement really is:

When we are charged GST in the same way as cabbies, we can only get income tax deductions at say 19c on the dollar (dependent on your tax bracket) on our facilitator fees.

But cabbies can claim back 100% of their GST on their bailee fees and then an income tax deduction on the rest, there is no GST to claim back.

This is what the ATO want's us to be thrilled about:

Cab driver:
$55 fare inc $5 GST
Pays bailee 45% = $24.75, inc GST and can claim back $2.25 GST Input tax credits plus the balance left after subtracting GST in income tax deductions: 19c on the dollar x $22.50 = $3.60

Total tax back on $55 fare = $5.85

Share driver:
$55 fare, inc $5 GST
Pays facilitator 20% = $22 excluding GST and can claim back only income tax deductions 19c on the dollar = $4.18

Total tax back on this fare = $4.18

BTW to earn this fare, the cabby needed to driver from Melb Central to Clayton Station, the share driver had to drive from Melb Central to Endeavour Hills!! 12 Kms further!
http://www.taxi.vic.gov.au/passengers/taxi-passengers/taxi-fares/taxi-fare-estimator
https://www.uber.com/cities/melbourne
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
IMHO it does not make sense as it doesn't deal with the total costs of the share driver but this is what the tax office presented in the ATO Q&A Advice Forum (based on a 50% rate for cabs, which was incorrect as the minimum rate for cabbies is 55%)
 

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Uber is increasing rates by 10% (so they say - but in reality it doesn't work out to be 10%)
But didn't really answer my question. Uber isn't withholding 10% for the GST payment, nor does it sound like they are 'adding 10% GST' to the bill in any way shape or form. Just increased the rates randomly.

So back to my first question, has Uber just increased the fees, still taking its 20% cut and passing the remaining 80% to the driver to 'deal with' and look after the GST payments when the ATO comes knocking on your door for their money.... And will the ATO be after 10% of the total fair (which is what the law would say should be owing) or 10% of what you got paid?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
But didn't really answer my question. Uber isn't withholding 10% for the GST payment, nor does it sound like they are 'adding 10% GST' to the bill in any way shape or form. Just increased the rates randomly.

So back to my first question, has Uber just increased the fees, still taking its 20% cut and passing the remaining 80% to the driver to 'deal with' and look after the GST payments when the ATO comes knocking on your door for their money.... And will the ATO be after 10% of the total fair (which is what the law would say should be owing) or 10% of what you got paid?
Yes, ATO wants 10% of total fare.

Uber is still taking the same 20% cut as far as I'm aware, they have just randomly increased the fees in a cunning manner that will not end up paying much more to share drivers.
 

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People still don't understand what a rip off this GST input tax credit arrangement really is:

When we are charged GST in the same way as cabbies, we can only get income tax deductions at say 19c on the dollar (dependent on your tax bracket) on our facilitator fees.

But cabbies can claim back 100% of their GST on their bailee fees and then an income tax deduction on the rest, there is no GST to claim back.

This is what the ATO want's us to be thrilled about:

Cab driver:
$55 fare inc $5 GST
Pays bailee 45% = $24.75, inc GST and can claim back $2.25 GST Input tax credits plus the balance left after subtracting GST in income tax deductions: 19c on the dollar x $22.50 = $3.60

Total tax back on $55 fare = $5.85

Share driver:
$55 fare, inc $5 GST
Pays facilitator 20% = $22 excluding GST and can claim back only income tax deductions 19c on the dollar = $4.18

Total tax back on this fare = $4.18

BTW to earn this fare, the cabby needed to driver from Melb Central to Clayton Station, the share driver had to drive from Melb Central to Endeavour Hills!! 12 Kms further!
http://www.taxi.vic.gov.au/passengers/taxi-passengers/taxi-fares/taxi-fare-estimator
https://www.uber.com/cities/melbourne
Your argument has nothing to do with the ATO being unfair to Uber drivers, it has to do with Uber Australia not being fair to Uber drivers here in Australia. Uber Australia needs to register for GST. Uber needs to start charging GST on all rides and including GST in our pay. Of course Uber can and most likely will, if pushed, just drop out rates and then include GST as they've done with the recent 10% fare increase.

Face it, we are rooted either way - if the Government forces Uber to register for and charge GST, they'll just drop rates again and there will still be thousands of imbeciles lining up to drive for them.
 

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Ok cool. So as I thought. Uber screwing over its drivers again! Making drivers pay the FULL 10% GST on the total fair, even though they take 20% cut. Which really means they should be taking a 20% cut of the GST 'owed' as well!

I see some very unhappy drivers in the future who pocket the extra fair today and then getting lumped with a HUGE GST Bill.

So lets get this straight....

A $10 fair, would mean the driver gets $8 of it, but would owe $1 in GST to the ATO. So really only gets $7 for the fair.

So drivers should be withholding 12.5% of the money paid to them from Uber for GST payments unless they can off set GST from outgoings?

YIKES
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Your argument has nothing to do with the ATO being unfair to Uber drivers, it has to do with Uber Australia not being fair to Uber drivers here in Australia. Uber Australia needs to register for GST. Uber needs to start charging GST on all rides and including GST in our pay. Of course Uber can and most likely will, if pushed, just drop out rates and then include GST as they've done with the recent 10% fare increase.

Face it, we are rooted either way - if the Government forces Uber to register for and charge GST, they'll just drop rates again and there will still be thousands of imbeciles lining up to drive for them.
Yes, the ATO's hands are tied. Not trying to fight the ATO. But the application is unfair and it is the legislators that can fix that....as for charging Uber GST, they can't cause it's an OS based company and exempt, BUT the legislators should introduce a new tax on OS app providers that is equivalent to GST and which alleviates drivers from paying anything more then 10% on their 80% cut, rather than 10% on the gross fare.
 

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But didn't really answer my question. Uber isn't withholding 10% for the GST payment, nor does it sound like they are 'adding 10% GST' to the bill in any way shape or form. Just increased the rates randomly.

So back to my first question, has Uber just increased the fees, still taking its 20% cut and passing the remaining 80% to the driver to 'deal with' and look after the GST payments when the ATO comes knocking on your door for their money.... And will the ATO be after 10% of the total fair (which is what the law would say should be owing) or 10% of what you got paid?
Yes, that is what they are doing.

They don't have to "withhold" 10%.

If Uber was registered for GST which they don't think they should be - on a $110 fare, they should be charging the pax $100 + $10 in GST. They need to hold the $10.

Their current set up say's we get 80% of the fare - so we should get $88 for this ride - which is $80 + $8 in GST.

This means Uber collected $10 in GST but paid us $8 in GST - so Uber has collected $2 more in GST than they paid out - so they now owe the ATO $2.

As drivers, we have collected $8 in GST and must give that amount to the ATO, less any credits we made while earning that money (fuel etc.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok cool. So as I thought. Uber screwing over its drivers again! Making drivers pay the FULL 10% GST on the total fair, even though they take 20% cut. Which really means they should be taking a 20% cut of the GST 'owed' as well!

I see some very unhappy drivers in the future who pocket the extra fair today and then getting lumped with a HUGE GST Bill.

So lets get this straight....

A $10 fair, would mean the driver gets $8 of it, but would owe $1 in GST to the ATO. So really only gets $7 for the fair.

So drivers should be withholding 12.5% of the money paid to them from Uber for GST payments unless they can off set GST from outgoings?

YIKES
Yep, but it's worked out slightly differently:

On $10 the GST is .91c (divide the total fare by 11)

then take away $2 for Luber

you are left with $7.10 to cover your costs
 

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we get $2.50 for flagfall and $1.40/km in Sydney. Min fare has gone up to $8. Wait time and cancelled ride fare is the same as you guys.
I wonder why you guys get paid less?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
we get $2.50 for flagfall and $1.40/km in Sydney. Min fare has gone up to $8. Wait time and cancelled ride fare is the same as you guys.
I wonder why you guys get paid less?
I don't want to provide any excuse to Uber for this, so I wont attempt to other to say that it is a manipulation of the marketplace:

BASE how low can you go?
 

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yeah seems that way:

Flagfall - Syd $3.60 Mel $3.2 (11% less)
Booking fee - Syd $2.50 Mel $2.00 (20% less)
$ per km - Syd $2.19 Mel $1.617 (26% less)
$ per min - Syd $0.94 Mel $0.566 (40% less)
 

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Face it, we are rooted either way - if the Government forces Uber to register for and charge GST, they'll just drop rates again and there will still be thousands of imbeciles lining up to drive for them.
August 2015 .

Prophetic ..
 
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