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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was reading the site www.uberlawsuit.com and I was wondering; do people really want to be classified as employees (i.e. paid slaves) or would you rather be a plantation owner (i.e. "independent" contractor). I have to admit, we are technically working as slaves under the guise of a plantation owner. If we were truly independent contractors as Uber states, we would be able to set our own driving rates and also get paid tips and other things in the so-called contract would be negotiable. However, we are obviously getting played. I am for a hybrid model. Maybe create a whole new employment category. More like "Dependent Contractor" with benefits from both sides of the fence so-to-speak. Any thoughts?
 

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The premise that we would be able to set our own rates is inaccurate. Most franchises don't have that option, from gas prices to convenience stores to haircut stores to fast food. The franchisor tells them where to price goods, and with hefty, sometimes multi-million dollar investments, they are not weak partners like we are.

The law is very slow to change. Nevertheless, why is a hybrid needed? Either the elements of control are there, or they are not. I would like (love) to be reimbursed for expenses, but I wouldn't want anything else to change. Reimbursing for expenses could be really damaging to the company, it would probably not be able to operate...my car gets too low gas mileage, so I could be deactivated. Some cars cost too much to repair, more deactivations. It's a huge tradeoff I'm not ready to make.
 

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As an independent contractor, you can accept Uber's contract requirements, or not. Uber says tipping not required. Uber sets the rates. As the old saying goes, "If you don't like the rule, leave."

That's what Uber does when a city demands they follow certain rules....they leave.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
To me Uber is a love/hate relationship. Can't live with it, can't live without it. I love more aspects of it than not which is why I am sticking with this "quasi-abusive" relationship to see if things will change for the better. No relationship is perfect but some things need to change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As an independent contractor, you can accept Uber's contract requirements, or not. Uber says tipping not required. Uber sets the rates. As the old saying goes, "If you don't like the rule, leave."

That's what Uber does when a city demands they follow certain rules....they leave.
Looks like the lawsuit ruling is starting to favor of the drivers. So Uber will either change it's business model or cease to exist if drivers ultimately win. It is basically setting a nationwide precedence if you understand law in general.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nevertheless, why is a hybrid needed?
Hybrid model is needed so we can get the perks of employees while maintaining independence. I hate being told when and where to work on the job. When to come in and when to leave, etc...What I will be paid also...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
law is very slow to change.
Yes, even if the lawsuit is successful, could take another 5 - 10 years before anything is put into place that will affect us as drivers. But maybe sooner, things happen quickly in the technical world.
 

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Hybrid model is needed so we can get the perks of employees while maintaining independence. I hate being told when and where to work on the job. When to come in and when to leave, etc...What I will be paid also...
Well who DOESN'T want the best of both worlds? :) One of the biggest issues for state and fed is the tax and entitlement status. If you can operate independently when it favors you, yet file for unemployment, workers comp, etc when it doesn't , you shift a larger burden to employers. That's unacceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well who DOESN'T want the best of both worlds? :) One of the biggest issues for state and fed is the tax and entitlement status. If you can operate independently when it favors you, yet file for unemployment, workers comp, etc when it doesn't , you shift a larger burden to employers. That's unacceptable.
New economy dictates a new business model. We still have industrial age job categories...
 

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New economy dictates a new business model. We still have industrial age job categories...
Well, if you are willing to get rid of the protection currently provided by those job categories, that is fine. Are you? Are you willing to give up entitlement programs when you hit the wall?
 

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Well, if you are willing to get rid of the protection currently provided by those job categories, that is fine. Are you? Are you willing to give up entitlement programs when you hit the wall?
This includes the FLSA protections, BTW, which were put in place for those "industrial age jobs". If you are willing to render those obsolete, I will tip my hat to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, if you are willing to get rid of the protection currently provided by those job categories, that is fine.
Are you? Are you willing to give up entitlement programs when you hit the wall?
Not really, that's why hybrid model taking the best of both sides is needed. Remember I am talking bi-polar not just polar in a sense. I wonder what it would take to create an entire new employment (hybrid) category. Change will come, it's inevitable. Uber is too big to just go away and has too many large investors. Besides, it's good for the economy and overall a greater good and much needed service within the corporation called America. Also, as drivers there is strength in numbers so the legal route is the best route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This includes the FLSA protections, BTW, which were put in place for those "industrial age jobs". If you are willing to render those obsolete, I will tip my hat to you.
I am just saying things need to be modified for the greater good.
 

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Well, if you are willing to get rid of the protection currently provided by those job categories, that is fine.

Not really, that's why hybrid model taking the best of both sides is needed. Remember I am talking bi-polar not just polar in a sense. I wonder what it would take to create an entire new employment (hybrid) category. Change will come, it's inevitable. Uber is too big to just go away and has too many large investors. Besides, it's good for the economy and overall a greater good and much needed service within the corporation called America. Also, as drivers there is strength in numbers so the legal route is the best route.
Seriously? You really believe that Uber is too big to fail? It is a house of cards! Look at the incredible driver turnover. They continue to cut rates below any reasonable point, and only drivers in select areas in unique environments can survive. They are shifting the burden of everything from vehicle maintenance to employment taxes on to the backs of the drivers. As soon as they are forced to stop shifting that burden, a huge chunk of their profit dries up.

These "self-employed" drivers have no recourse when they are arbitrarily deactivated. Nor are they eligible for unemployment. But there are movements out there to make these "self-employed drivers" eligible. There are two ways that could happen: 1.Uber kicks in and pays unemployment taxes, 2. The drivers pay unemployment taxes.

If 1;
Go to UberProfitLoss

If 2:
Go to driver pay cuts

How is this "good for the economy"?
It is not as if all of the riders previously stayed home and watched television before Uber came to town. At best, it moved income to a different vehicle/driver combo, and in many cases, reduced ridership on public transportation vehicles, which some say is bad for the environment.

You don't seem to be proposing removing any safety nets. I may be wrong, but you want the net there, yet you want to avoid paying for the net. Either take the full risk of being an entrepreneur or don't! Going into business for yourself is scary, and many people fall on their face, more than once, but this is not Little League baseball where mom brings snacks, and everyone leaves happy. If you want the freedom to be your own boss, come and go as you please, etc., man up and make it happen. It seems that you opted to drive for a company which is exercising its own right to do as it pleases.:)
There are certainly Uber drivers out there who are running their own show, maximizing their profits, investing in their future, and putting money aside for a rainy day. Again, they are in unique situations demographically, but it is what it is, you cannot force a square peg into a round hole.

We don't need a "hybrid" category . You either work for a company which follows labor guidelines, or you work for yourself, and set your own labor guidelines.
 

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Well you can put my vote in for making UBER drivers employee's (although I do like the dependent classification.) The present model allows UBER to dictate far too much on the income side with no regard to minimum wage. Their fare cuts without informing drivers is about as underhanded as it comes.

Presently FUBAR can hire as many drivers as it wishes and flood local markets with more and more drivers with no ramifications/cost (well the referral fee but they get 20 rides to offset it) except they get their 20% from 5,000 drivers instead of 500 drivers, the problem being the 500 drivers are now earning substantially less and less...Then they toss in a rate decrease and don't add a fuel surcharge. Many just went thru a 20% fuel increase and a 20% rate decrease...roughly a $400 monthly hit for me that UBER cares nothing about BUT they sure say they do...lol

I can't wait until deactivated drivers get unemployment paid for BY UBER...you want to see fares rise...just watch when that happens (maybe then they will listen to drivers and not let intoxicated riders rate you when in fact they can't even walk.) When UBER gets handed down the hard costs of running a business you will see a whole different side...Payroll Taxes, Workers Comp, Social Security...the list goes on.

I for one am all for being an employee, let UBER see what the real business world is like where drivers are employees not chattel.
 

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More like "Dependent Contractor" with benefits from both sides of the fence so-to-speak. Any thoughts?
The bolded is very much in line with the Department of Labor's new guidelines for determining employment/contractor status. They stated that if the company is the worker's main source of income, then they are an employee despite other criteria that suggests otherwise. Essentially it means the worker is dependent on the company, and is therefor not independent of the company. They fail to meet the profile on an independent contractor.

This is where Uber is going to fall flat on their face given how many drivers do this as their main source of income.
 

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Well you can put my vote in for making UBER drivers employee's (although I do like the dependent classification.) The present model allows UBER to dictate far too much on the income side with no regard to minimum wage. Their fare cuts without informing drivers is about as underhanded as it comes.

Presently FUBAR can hire as many drivers as it wishes and flood local markets with more and more drivers with no ramifications/cost (well the referral fee but they get 20 rides to offset it) except they get their 20% from 5,000 drivers instead of 500 drivers, the problem being the 500 drivers are now earning substantially less and less...Then they toss in a rate decrease and don't add a fuel surcharge. Many just went thru a 20% fuel increase and a 20% rate decrease...roughly a $400 monthly hit for me that UBER cares nothing about BUT they sure say they do...lol

I can't wait until deactivated drivers get unemployment paid for BY UBER...you want to see fares rise...just watch when that happens (maybe then they will listen to drivers and not let intoxicated riders rate you when in fact they can't even walk.) When UBER gets handed down the hard costs of running a business you will see a whole different side...Payroll Taxes, Workers Comp, Social Security...the list goes on.

I for one am all for being an employee, let UBER see what the real business world is like where drivers are employees not chattel.
I will bet my latest fleet addition that Uber will fold it's hand before it becomes an employer! I just hope they are forced to pay damages first
 

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I will bet my latest fleet addition that Uber will fold it's hand before it becomes an employer! I just hope they are forced to pay damages first
You know it, they want nothing to do with responsibility and the law of the land. Play it fast and loose on IC drivers backs. You think the LIBS would be up in arms over it, but sadly liberal voters draw the line at waiting for dirty smelly expensive cab rides.

Not to worry us CALI liberals will get them, you know the ones that charge you sales tax on the full list price of a cell phone and get you for 80 cents at the pump.
 
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