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Uber fares are 'default fares' to be used if a fare is not negotiated...

3949 Views 79 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Michael - Cleveland, Feb 10, 2016

Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · Sep 27, 2015 (Edited)

Both the partner agreement and the user agreement specifically say the fares are 'default fares' to be used if a fare is not negotiated between the driver and the rider.

...you and the Company shall always have the right to negotiate a Service Fee different from the pre-arranged fee.
The purpose of the pre-arranged Service Fee is only to act as the default fee in the event neither party negotiates a different amount.

So, go ahead -
Tell your next rider that you charge a $5 pick-up fee in addition to whatever Uber charges.
Get them to send 'I AGREE TO A $5 Fee' to you by txt ...
and then request a fare adjustment from Uber at the end of the trip.

Document the email exchange you have with the CSR that refuses to increase the fare...
and then send it all to Lis-Riordin if Uber either refuses to charge the fee and pay it to you - or deactivates you.

THAT's the lawsuit I want to see.

@chi1cabby and

@Another Uber Driver ... what do you think?

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 30, 2015

It's not about doing it repeatedly, it's about getting a lot of driver's to do it once, or twice - or occasionally - to see if Uber will live up to the terms of their agreement... and having documented evidence one way or the other.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 30, 2015

SECOTIME said:
Have you had success?

I haven't had the guts (or the right circumstance) yet to try it.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 30, 2015

SECOTIME said:
I appreciate the honesty.

?? huh... nothing to hide here!

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 30, 2015

SECOTIME said:
This is the internet bro. People often exaggerate or make shit up.

yeah... of course.
but I'm an old guy with no agenda here.
(which is why you'll see me trying to explain to new drivers the reasoning behind a lot of Uber's practices almost as much as I ***** about those same practices)

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 30, 2015

SCdave said:
Emailing Uber Support to ask them how a drive can charge more than the "default rate" would also be interesting to see what the response would be.

An "example" like, " I had a PAX who had been cancelled on by a few drivers before I was requested. He wanted to go 80 miles at 2am which meant I would have driven 160 miles round trip. He was cancelled on three times before I got there since the fare for driving 160 miles was not enough. I wanted to take him because it was late and he had been cancelled on so many times, but I just couldn't drive that many miles for such a low fare. He wanted to pay me more to take him but he had no cash for a tip and I obviously couldn't take his credit card."

You could end it any way you are comfortable. " Is there any way the passenger could have paid me more to take him?". Or whatever makes sense?

That's all good... but it's dealing with a hypothetical (not an actual request to change the fare based on an agreement negotiated with the driver) and the answer would only be the 'opinion' of the CSR - who would likely refer you to the partner agreement.
Still, it would be a good exercise. Nice suggestion!

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 30, 2015

TwoFiddyMile said:
If you could get drivers to do this in numbers it would have a definite effect.
The customer of course will not agree and cancel.
Even the spike in cancelation will have an effect.
It's passive resistance towards corporate policy, and it also takes advantage of their policy.
It absolutely won't work at the customer to sales level tho.

It's something we should consider, I think, maybe.
If someone with more time and energy than me could organize an 'event' -
pick just one day, and get just a few drivers in every US market to ask a pax to participate...
even offering them $5 cash to to agree to a $5 upcharge in a fare...
THAT would be a statement to Uber and raise a few eyebrows, don't ya think?
(I think it would be far more effective - and relevant, legally - than trying to organize a work stoppage/strike)

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 30, 2015

SCdave said:
Or.... when the next PAX says, "Hey, I want to tip you $5 but don't have cash". Maybe we can respond, " While it is not required, I really appreciate it". Then suggest PAX text you " I authorize Uber adding $5 to my Trip Fare".
???

Again... very smart suggestion.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 30, 2015

SCdave said:
Then suggest PAX text you " I authorize Uber adding $5 to my Trip Fare".

Maybe easier:

>>> No problem! Just send me a txt before we end the trip saying "please add this tip to my fare: $_____ <<<

This gets interesting... because if you do it as a 'tip',
by law, Uber must pass on the entire amount to the driver,
and is not allowed to charge/deduct a commission or fee %.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #19 · Sep 30, 2015

Well, I guess it is time to invite our resident CSR to comment... what say you, thehappytypist ?

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #21 · Sep 30, 2015 (Edited)

thehappytypist said:
Long story short, everything people suggest in this thread will get you kicked off. (Street hail/soliciting trips outside Uber, cash exchange). But I wonder if by Service Fee, they mean Uber's commission. I'm bad at reading legal stuff so I may be wrong.

Please take a step back and notice that nowhere has anyone suggested a street hail, cash transaction or off app transaction.
The question is if Uber will affect a request from a driver who has rider authorization who submits a fare adjustment based on that authorization.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #26 · Sep 30, 2015 (Edited)

thehappytypist said:
Basically most ways to negotiate your rate could get you deactivated if the rider complained. If you write in asking us to add tip, or even if a rider writes in to add a tip, we aren't allowed to do it. Accepting additional payment on top of the fare will get you in trouble. If someone decides to not do the trip through the app and have the rider pay the agreed upon fare to the driver, that is immediate and permanent deactivation. It's nuts that they would even have that in the agreement if there's no way to do it without getting into trouble. It's lip-service and misleading.

Again just to be clear, no one in this thread has ever suggested anything about doing a ride off app, or on a cash basis. We're talking about putting a negotiated fare or tip through the app, through uber.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #33 · Oct 1, 2015

thehappytypist said:
Yes, I realize that.

It's pretty interesting that Uber's policy is to deactivate a driver for doing something which the agreement allows. That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #39 · Oct 1, 2015

SCdave said:
It's 2am. A PAX has been cancelled on 3 times in a row because the Driver won't drive 40 miles into the country side (under serviced or basically no service area). 4th Uber Driver shows up and PAX says, "Man, I just got cancelled on 3 times. I know the rates are low and the 40 miles to take me home is actually an 80 mile trip for you, the Driver. I want to pay more, h*ll, it's cheap for me at twice the fare, but I don't have any cash on me".

thehappytypist , how does the Uber Driver handle this in a professional manner that will make the Uber Customer happy?

Thanks... now we're having the discussion I was hoping this would generate... (please, please folks, keep it civil and don't shoot the messenger when someone - especially a C S R - posts something that drives you nuts)

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #40 · Oct 1, 2015

Fuzzyelvis said:
If you ask them to put it in as a tip they'll simply respond with there's no way for anyone to tip in the app. You would need to do it as part of the fare.

Well we know that's not true, because they put the SRF in the fare without charging us a commission on that fee.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #41 · Oct 1, 2015

thehappytypist said:
If you write in asking us to add tip, or even if a rider writes in to add a tip, we aren't allowed to do it... It's nuts that they would even have that in the agreement if there's no way to do it without getting into trouble. It's lip-service and misleading.

What is nuts is not having a way to do it but having it in the agreement. Nuts, and legally it is "Restraint of Trade".

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #42 · Oct 1, 2015

CommanderXL said:
Yeah, but the next line defines "negotiated fare" so that you can only lower the fare:

You shall always have the right to: (i) charge a fare that is less than the pre-arranged Fare; or (ii) negotiate, at your request, a Fare that is lower than the pre-arranged Fare (each of (i) and (ii) herein, a "Negotiated Fare"). Company shall consider all such requests from you in good faith.

It doesn't say "only". That is just what Uber wants you to think.

You have to remember that just because an agreement or contract says something, doesn't mean it is binding, or legal... especially if the contract is drafted by one party that has a 'superior' position. Federal Judge Chen has written about this at some length.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #53 · Oct 1, 2015

Casuale Haberdasher said:
POST # 10/Michael - Cleveland: An
exemplary display
of Comity AND Maturity by the De Facto
"Great Great-Laker".
Well-done Fellow Notable !

<blush>

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #55 · Oct 1, 2015 (Edited)

thehappytypist said:
The rider would have to give you cash or you use your own swipe thing because we won't add anything to the fare even at the rider's request. This entire situation hinges on whether you trust the rider not to write a complaint about it afterward, I'm sure it happens frequently. If they willingly give you cash at the time but afterwards they write to support, we're going to be bugging you about it.

I've got to say, fare adjustments at the request of both the rider and the driver (ie: negotiated) are not just the stated policy in the Uber TOS and driver agreements, they are supported by law (if Uber is in fact only a technology company and 'third party payer - as defined in the agreements and TOS).

For Uber to pass on a policy to the CSRs to deny any such mutually agreed upon fare adjustment,
is a breach of contract and likely illegal.

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Michael - Cleveland

Discussion Starter · #56 · Oct 1, 2015

seriously:
I LOVE THIS THREAD!
(thank you to the many thoughtful and serious participants)

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