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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NYC drivers are getting paid for the difference between rider and driver fares by taking a screenshot of the trip on the rider app at pickup and submitting to Uber after the trip has ended. Imagine if all drivers did this! NYC is so much better regulated though and Uber doesn't want to lose that market so I wouldn't be surprised if this trick didn't work as well in other markets.

https://qz.com/956139/uber-drivers-...h-riders-to-check-their-pay-from-the-company/

"Before I start my trip, I usually go into the app for the rider and see how much it would be to go from where I picked them up to where I'm going to drop them off," Jose Molina, an Uber driver in New York City, told me last week. Then he takes a screenshot. "Once it's done, I'll check on my app to see how much they paid me, to see if there's a difference," he said.

I spoke to Molina on April 6 at a hearing on for-hire driver earnings convened by the Taxi and Limousine Commission (TLC), the local taxi authority. The hearing began at 10am and over the next six hours 82 people testified. Uber's varied fare prices for riders and drivers came up multiple times. One driver claimed Uber paid him $59, including $20 for tolls, for a trip from the airport that cost his passenger $127. TLC chairwoman Meera Joshi asked him and several others to speak with a commission staff member after they testified.

Molina told me his Uber fares are usually a dollar or two less than what the rider pays, but have been off by as much as $45. If he notes a discrepancy, Molina said he writes to Uber with his "proof"-the screenshot of the fare estimate on the rider app. "Then all of a sudden they'll send [money] back to me," he said. I asked how often he takes these screenshots. "All the time," he said, "especially when you're doing long distance." A driver standing next to him nodded in agreement.
 

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What a great idea. I know I missed out on $20.00 difference recently because of the amount charged to customer vs amount of the fare as appeared in the driver app.
 

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Unbelievable. Yet, not unbelievable for uber.

I quickly tested this on my first run today.
Pax app $37.17
My driver app $26.98

I wonder how far back you could run trips and submit.

Unbelievable. Yet, not unbelievable for uber.

I quickly tested this on my first run today.
Pax app $37.17
My driver app $26.98

I wonder how far back you could run trips and submit.
The issue I see is that it looks like uber is paying me correcting, it is the customer they are overcharging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The issue I see is that it looks like uber is paying me correcting, it is the customer they are overcharging.
Driver is being paid correctly according to the published rates. Customer is certainly getting overcharged. Especially since it's known that the rider and driver apps show different routes for the trip.

What is wrong is that Uber can charge whatever they want to a rider without changing the rates that a driver works for. So Uber could be getting away with $1.00/mile and driver is working for $0.85/mile. There's a lot of secrecy and the software they use is sophisticated. Your example had $10 above the rider app fare. What's to stop them from increasing that to $12 for the same exact trip? They will just say that the rider agreed to it, but the effective fare increase would be passed onto the driver at all.

Do they charge the same per customer for the same route at the same exact time?

For large events like the political conventions, would they increase the upfront price discreetly to earn higher profits per ride, while the driver has the same per mile/min rate as always in that market?

I get that for upfront pricing to work some trips will be above and below the fare estimate. But there just seems to be too much secrecy and price discrepancies for it to not be a scheme to make higher revenue.
 

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Unbelievable. Yet, not unbelievable for uber.

I quickly tested this on my first run today.
Pax app $37.17
My driver app $26.98

I wonder how far back you could run trips and submit.

The issue I see is that it looks like uber is paying me correcting, it is the customer they are overcharging.
Yes right . Rider paying upfront . Uber making more and more money.
Driver is being paid correctly according to the published rates. Customer is certainly getting overcharged. Especially since it's known that the rider and driver apps show different routes for the trip.

What is wrong is that Uber can charge whatever they want to a rider without changing the rates that a driver works for. So Uber could be getting away with $1.00/mile and driver is working for $0.85/mile. There's a lot of secrecy and the software they use is sophisticated. Your example had $10 above the rider app fare. What's to stop them from increasing that to $12 for the same exact trip? They will just say that the rider agreed to it, but the effective fare increase would be passed onto the driver at all.

Do they charge the same per customer for the same route at the same exact time?

For large events like the political conventions, would they increase the upfront price discreetly to earn higher profits per ride, while the driver has the same per mile/min rate as always in that market?

I get that for upfront pricing to work some trips will be above and below the fare estimate. But there just seems to be too much secrecy and price discrepancies for it to not be a scheme to make higher revenue.
but we agreed to get 75% ride payment isn't it ? So if rider pay more we will get 75% of it . I just think it willl that simple . Then why rider will pay more ???
 

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Just flat out ask your pax how much they paid. You should know the rates & fees. If it seems high as ****, discuss alternative payments.
 
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I'm not sure I understand why Uber would pay the driver the difference? He didnt drive the mileage for the difference.
 

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Driver is being paid correctly according to the published rates. Customer is certainly getting overcharged. Especially since it's known that the rider and driver apps show different routes for the trip.

What is wrong is that Uber can charge whatever they want to a rider without changing the rates that a driver works for. So Uber could be getting away with $1.00/mile and driver is working for $0.85/mile. There's a lot of secrecy and the software they use is sophisticated. Your example had $10 above the rider app fare. What's to stop them from increasing that to $12 for the same exact trip? They will just say that the rider agreed to it, but the effective fare increase would be passed onto the driver at all.

Do they charge the same per customer for the same route at the same exact time?

For large events like the political conventions, would they increase the upfront price discreetly to earn higher profits per ride, while the driver has the same per mile/min rate as always in that market?

I get that for upfront pricing to work some trips will be above and below the fare estimate. But there just seems to be too much secrecy and price discrepancies for it to not be a scheme to make higher revenue.
That makes sense. So, I do not understand how the drivers are getting paid the difference. ???
 

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lm trying to submit. It's not working at all. Idk how these NYC jokers do it.
 

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Yup, tried it out last friday night. Downtown to Irving during 3,0 surge. Rider paid $48, I got $30 and Uber got $10, the other $8 Uber took before any math was done,
 

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lm trying to submit. It's not working at all. Idk how these NYC jokers do it.
Yeah. I'm doubting the full accuracy of the article. Uber can stand firm with drivers based on the fact they are paying as agreed - per mile, etc.

With the passengers, I am fully convinced uber is charging more than the rate we know, .85 per mile etc.

As drivers actually we have nothing to do with what uber charges passengers, that is, uber can charge them whatever the heck they want.

I did try to submit one also. Uber responded with a full breakdown of how they paid me - it was accurate, just substantially less than the passenger paid. So, in reality uber is profiting a much higher than 25 percent on us.
 

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Uber has another NASTY lawsuit coming over this. The only way they can get away with charging the customer more than .85 in Dallas is if it's based on surge since .85 is their advertised rate. If that is the case then the driver is owed the surge difference as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So, in reality uber is profiting a much higher than 25 percent on us.
If drivers took screenshots to compare the upfront fare on many rides and see that it's always overcharging the rider by a lot then it's obvious that Uber is profiting well with this method. Drivers can take alternate routes with longer miles and that has to be accounted for with the upfront fare. However, riders aren't going to allow drivers to take inefficient routes all the time. So the drivers fare is typically going to be less than the riders fare on long trips.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There is a lawsuit in NYC I believe over this. I would love to get raw data and crunch the numbers.

My thinking is this: Rider is charged $50 for a long trip. Driver takes the most efficient route for $40. The route that Uber used to calculate the rider fare would have been $44 which is a longer and slower route. So the algorithm is kicking in more than what would have been expected on a "worst route" scenario.

The rider is getting screwed on the higher price without a logical fare calculation to support the fare charged. I've read that if a driver goes too far out of the way, then the fare recalculates which means the rider might pay more than their quoted price.

The $44 is my example seems logical to me but definitely the extra $6 is a hidden fare upcharge that Uber collects and the driver never gets. A hidden fare increase. That's the part I am most concerned with.

If one could crunch the numbers and see if Uber is coming out on top big time on most of the upfront fares, that would be key to knowing if drivers are really getting ripped off. If it's a zero sum game and the average profit/loss is near $0 then upfront pricing is setup correctly.

If the passenger changes the destination, the fare changes to match the actual time and miles.
I am anxious to test this to see if that results in a fare lower than the upfront price. Also on occasion I end the trip early if I miss an exit and know it's going to add a couple miles. I wonder if the rider's fare is increased or they end up paying less with a recalculated fare on actual miles and minutes.
 

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...but we agreed to get 75% ride payment isn't it ? So if rider pay more we will get 75% of it . I just think it willl that simple . Then why rider will pay more ???
Have you read the Partner Agreement you signed at activation? Because that spells out in plain words "your agreement". Hence it's title. Take 10 minutes and scan that, then you'll understand. Just read it close to the can because I promise you'll feel like vomiting.

Has anyone here actually read either the Rider TOS or your Partner Agreement? Your PA is in your dashboard. Please stop being clueless and inform yourself.
US Rider TOS here:
https://help.uber.com/h/5ea6e5ee-054a-4a95-995b-89bb3248e17e
 

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If they are overcharging pax and underpaying us there will be a huge class action suit against them in the future. What sucks is that lawyers will get half of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
... so when you are listing what the pax paid... where are you getting that?
directly from the pax? or?
When you pickup and get the destination then enter that into your rider app to get a fare quote and take a screenshot. Obviously it works great with non-surge trips, but surge is going to probably change between pax request and pickup time.

Even if your fare quote is not the same as the pax, it can still be compared on your end to see fare discrepancies.

If they are overcharging pax and underpaying us there will be a huge class action suit against them in the future. What sucks is that lawyers will get half of it.
http://www.sfweekly.com/news/uber-sued-again-in-another-price-gouging-scheme/
 
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