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The police are not your friends, and they will not rescue you from riders.
They will always assume that the driver is insane, and that pax are victims.

You will notice from this story, and from other stories, that when you request a rider
to leave your vehicle -- kick them out -- that they are not legally obligated to leave.
If they refuse to exit, they are not committing any crime, and the police will take their side.
They don't have to get out, and they know it.

It just doesn't work like you would imagine it does.
(IANAL so cannot comprehend why, but that is legal and observed reality.
They really DON'T have to get out.)

If pax claim that you menaced them in any way, such as threatening them,
and certainly if you lay a finger on them, or if they merely say that you did,
YOU will probably be charged with a very serious crime.

If you need to kick someone out, the only legal course of action for you is to pull over to
a safe location (such as a sidewalk), turn off the car, take keys of course, unlock all doors,
and exit the vehicle while explaining that the ride is now over, and would they please exit.
You must walk away quickly and leave the scene, and not a peep out of you.
This will not save you from serious accusations or charges, but at least you won't
be mixing it up with the pax when the police finally arrive.

(And police hate civil disturbances. Emotions run high and cops get hurt.
They also hate car-related incidents like traffic stops. Surprises and guns.
YOU are having a civil disturbance car-related incident on the side of the road.
Guess how thrilled the cops are going to be?)

If pax don't want to exit -- under any circumstances -- pax don't gotta exit.
It is NOT some kind of trespassing for them to refuse to exit, like you would think.
Cops do not treat this like a taxi or limo; you are not a Vehicle For Hire.
You are just some private people "Ride Sharing" and having a personal dispute.
Your pulling over and trying to kick them out might be some kind of a crime, though.

Once you let someone in your car, they have a right to stay,
more or less as long as they want,
and do whatever they want there.
Common sense tells you not to let strangers in your car.
What the **** were you thinking?
Jesus Christ, you call it "Uber"?
WTF SMH

If pax are still there when the police come, the police will question YOU
as to why you dared to ask them to leave, why you thought you could do that,
and they might politely ask the riders to leave the car(unless it's raining or cold
or something). Police may demand that you arrange (and pay for) transportation
of the poor stranded passengers whom you practically kidnapped, apparently.
Passengers will in no case be charged, unless they decline the invitation by the
police to exit the car - at which point they are disobeying an officer.
YOU on the other hand, are automatically in some deep shit, my friend.

If pax are gone, and police cannot find them, the whole thing is over (for today).
Police will go looking for pax, though, because they assume you did something bad.
Pax may decide to Uber and/or the police, tomorrow several days later.
Pax were scared of you and had to run away, you see. Now traumatized.

The pax will tell the police that you were driving erratically, you were high,
they were scared, that you threatened them, and all kinds of thing. You will likely be charged
with "assault" (threatening them, dangerous driving, etc.), and all kinds of creative things.
If they claim you so much as touched them, that's an additional crime called "battery".

They all saw it. They are all on the same page.
I don't know what happened, it was scary.
He picked us up and after a while started muttering about not getting
paid much and tips and ratings and yelled when we tried to change the
channel on the radio. God, we were just sitting there quietly and all the
sudden he started speeding and swerving around and looking at us mean
and started cursing...suddenly we were on the side of the road and I thought
we were going to die. Maybe he had a gun, I think I saw a knife or something.
He screamed and screamed that we had to get the **** out. He was crazy!
We were soooo scared we could not move and stayed put...OMG <tears>

(Even if nothing of the sort happened, of course.)

So if you're going to kick someone out you should
(a) know that you may be fired from Uber
(b) have money for a good lawyer
(c) not necessarily need your car anymore

Despite that BS letter back a few months ago from Uber, it is documented that
Uber never kicks any rider off the platform permanently, even if the rider has
been evicted and was for sure dangerous. We're so sorry this happened to you
and Community and TOS blah-blah blah-blah. Oh and then a few days later,
we're deactivating you. Uber's got your back. With a knife.

If you have a dash cam, that might help you in court (criminal case - police are
charging you for all kinds of things + civil case - pax want $$ from the incident).

You will also be investigated for dangerous driving, presumed to be under the influence
of drugs or alcohol, maybe given field tests or brought in, and your car may be (for months or
forever) confiscated. The police will presume you are crazy and that the pax are victims.

To the police, an Uber incident is like a bar fight or a husband-wife house fight,
and the pax are assumed to be the innocent victims. After all, you were in control
of the death machine, kidnapping ad terrorizing these poor people down the highway
while screaming at them like a lunatic, and then attempting to strand them etc.
Does not matter that you're the one who 911'd.

It didn't used to work this way when Uber was new, up to about a year ago.
But it seems that the police have adopted this posture towards Uber drivers lately.
Of course the police know what Uber is (as well as a never-taken-it-before pax does, anyway).
My best theory is that the police consider Uber & drivers to be a pain in the ass,
and Uber a general source of trouble (more traffic, and more things for police to have to
respond to) compared to when it was just normal private people driving themselves around
or taking the bus. Always keep in mind that police hate Uber drivers.
And, well, you've been on the road -- who can blame them?

Never mind axe murdering rapists in your back seat. Very unlikely.
It's crazy ******** that you let in your car all the time.
Which one will randomly go off? Will it be today?
WTF WERE YOU THINKING this was going to be?
Ubering is very dangerous to the driver.
You have been warned.

More stories will trickle out this year.
Most drivers in these scenarios will not (for various reasons) talk about it, though.
Every time you see an Uber driver getting tremendously screwed or in jeopardy,
you know that exact thing happened to 50 (or maybe 500) others that same day.

PS. Remember the news stories from a year ago about how Uber's own internal
database for tracking incidents (rider and pax) was so immense that they could
not hope to keep up on it? Most of those were about violent attacks on the pax
or on the rider. And those are just the ones that were reported.
It's a zillion times worse now.
 

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586 Posts
Tirebiter – what is your source for all of that?

I've had two kick outs so far in over 2000 rides. One of these required a 911 call, and the presence of a police lady, before my two pax got out of my car. When she showed up, I simply told the cop that I was the Uber driver and that I just wanted them out of my car. She told them to get out of my car, they got out, I got back in and drove off.

It was a very unpleasant experience ( because of the pax, not the cop), but the cop didn't say anything to me or ask me anything. I was allowed to drive off immediately, without having her ask me any questions at all.
 

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238 Posts
To this guy that wrote this 2017 bestseller "Do not kick off a pax from uber",I just have to aks:
1-aren't you innocent until proven otherwise?
2-your car is your property.It is registered on your name and you pay taxes for it(VA).How is it unlawful to ASK somebody to leave your property?
3-how is that classified as "kidnaping",when the trip is still "on" when the cops have arrived,you are outside of your vehicle and you called the cops?
4-texting while driving,speeding and similar things are all possible to check via gps and google tracking.
5-what would stop me to say that I felt endangered first?
 

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Registered
Joined
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805 Posts
The police are not your friends, and they will not rescue you from riders.
They will always assume that the driver is insane, and that pax are victims.

You will notice from this story, and from other stories, that when you request a rider
to leave your vehicle -- kick them out -- that they are not legally obligated to leave.
If they refuse to exit, they are not committing any crime, and the police will take their side.
They don't have to get out, and they know it.

It just doesn't work like you would imagine it does.
(IANAL so cannot comprehend why, but that is legal and observed reality.
They really DON'T have to get out.)

If pax claim that you menaced them in any way, such as threatening them,
and certainly if you lay a finger on them, or if they merely say that you did,
YOU will probably be charged with a very serious crime.

If you need to kick someone out, the only legal course of action for you is to pull over to
a safe location (such as a sidewalk), turn off the car, take keys of course, unlock all doors,
and exit the vehicle while explaining that the ride is now over, and would they please exit.
You must walk away quickly and leave the scene, and not a peep out of you.
This will not save you from serious accusations or charges, but at least you won't
be mixing it up with the pax when the police finally arrive.

(And police hate civil disturbances. Emotions run high and cops get hurt.
They also hate car-related incidents like traffic stops. Surprises and guns.
YOU are having a civil disturbance car-related incident on the side of the road.
Guess how thrilled the cops are going to be?)

If pax don't want to exit -- under any circumstances -- pax don't gotta exit.
It is NOT some kind of trespassing for them to refuse to exit, like you would think.
Cops do not treat this like a taxi or limo; you are not a Vehicle For Hire.
You are just some private people "Ride Sharing" and having a personal dispute.
Your pulling over and trying to kick them out might be some kind of a crime, though.

Once you let someone in your car, they have a right to stay,
more or less as long as they want,
and do whatever they want there.
Common sense tells you not to let strangers in your car.
What the &%[email protected]!* were you thinking?
Jesus Christ, you call it "Uber"?
WTF SMH

If pax are still there when the police come, the police will question YOU
as to why you dared to ask them to leave, why you thought you could do that,
and they might politely ask the riders to leave the car(unless it's raining or cold
or something). Police may demand that you arrange (and pay for) transportation
of the poor stranded passengers whom you practically kidnapped, apparently.
Passengers will in no case be charged, unless they decline the invitation by the
police to exit the car - at which point they are disobeying an officer.
YOU on the other hand, are automatically in some deep shit, my friend.

If pax are gone, and police cannot find them, the whole thing is over (for today).
Police will go looking for pax, though, because they assume you did something bad.
Pax may decide to Uber and/or the police, tomorrow several days later.
Pax were scared of you and had to run away, you see. Now traumatized.

The pax will tell the police that you were driving erratically, you were high,
they were scared, that you threatened them, and all kinds of thing. You will likely be charged
with "assault" (threatening them, dangerous driving, etc.), and all kinds of creative things.
If they claim you so much as touched them, that's an additional crime called "battery".

They all saw it. They are all on the same page.
I don't know what happened, it was scary.
He picked us up and after a while started muttering about not getting
paid much and tips and ratings and yelled when we tried to change the
channel on the radio. God, we were just sitting there quietly and all the
sudden he started speeding and swerving around and looking at us mean
and started cursing...suddenly we were on the side of the road and I thought
we were going to die. Maybe he had a gun, I think I saw a knife or something.
He screamed and screamed that we had to get the &%[email protected]!* out. He was crazy!
We were soooo scared we could not move and stayed put...OMG <tears>

(Even if nothing of the sort happened, of course.)

So if you're going to kick someone out you should
(a) know that you may be fired from Uber
(b) have money for a good lawyer
(c) not necessarily need your car anymore

Despite that BS letter back a few months ago from Uber, it is documented that
Uber never kicks any rider off the platform permanently, even if the rider has
been evicted and was for sure dangerous. We're so sorry this happened to you
and Community and TOS blah-blah blah-blah. Oh and then a few days later,
we're deactivating you. Uber's got your back. With a knife.

If you have a dash cam, that might help you in court (criminal case - police are
charging you for all kinds of things + civil case - pax want $$ from the incident).

You will also be investigated for dangerous driving, presumed to be under the influence
of drugs or alcohol, maybe given field tests or brought in, and your car may be (for months or
forever) confiscated. The police will presume you are crazy and that the pax are victims.

To the police, an Uber incident is like a bar fight or a husband-wife house fight,
and the pax are assumed to be the innocent victims. After all, you were in control
of the death machine, kidnapping ad terrorizing these poor people down the highway
while screaming at them like a lunatic, and then attempting to strand them etc.
Does not matter that you're the one who 911'd.

It didn't used to work this way when Uber was new, up to about a year ago.
But it seems that the police have adopted this posture towards Uber drivers lately.
Of course the police know what Uber is (as well as a never-taken-it-before pax does, anyway).
My best theory is that the police consider Uber & drivers to be a pain in the ass,
and Uber a general source of trouble (more traffic, and more things for police to have to
respond to) compared to when it was just normal private people driving themselves around
or taking the bus. Always keep in mind that police hate Uber drivers.
And, well, you've been on the road -- who can blame them?

Never mind axe murdering rapists in your back seat. Very unlikely.
It's crazy ******** that you let in your car all the time.
Which one will randomly go off? Will it be today?
WTF WERE YOU THINKING this was going to be?
Ubering is very dangerous to the driver.
You have been warned.

More stories will trickle out this year.
Most drivers in these scenarios will not (for various reasons) talk about it, though.
Every time you see an Uber driver getting tremendously screwed or in jeopardy,
you know that exact thing happened to 50 (or maybe 500) others that same day.

PS. Remember the news stories from a year ago about how Uber's own internal
database for tracking incidents (rider and pax) was so immense that they could
not hope to keep up on it? Most of those were about violent attacks on the pax
or on the rider. And those are just the ones that were reported.
It's a zillion times worse now.
I love Ohio. Our castle doctorine includes the car.

Not only can I pull the gun, if you threaten me I can kill you.
 

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Registered
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448 Posts
To this guy that wrote this 2017 bestseller "Do not kick off a pax from uber",I just have to aks:
1-aren't you innocent until proven otherwise?
Most of the bad things that can happen immediately (such as being taken into custody) are part of
the police investigation, after which they may decide to charge you now.
Otherwise they more or less have to let you go after a couple of days.
However, they can find probable cause to keep you locked up on all kinds of
chargesof various degrees. Of course, they can also come back and charge you
anytime (weeks, months, years) later, after talking to the pax some more.

Some day, if permanently jailed, you will indeed have a trial, if you want.
But your life will have already been quite ruined by the time that trial comes.

Now, your property (i.e. you car) -- NO, it is not presumed innocent. What? Property can have
a guilt or innocence, independent of you yourself? Yup. This is a popular doctrine lately,
called "civil asset forfeiture". If the police have reason to believe that your property has
been involved in a crime, they can take your property, right then and there. You will not
get it back.

They do not need to have a conviction; they don't even need to charge you with anything.
Just an accusation. Your property is presumed to be "guilty". Eventually, someday (years),
you can have a separate trial to try and get it back. It will be a civil trial, so you do not have a
presumption of innocence, all your rights as an accused are irrelevant. The government will
not have to prove that the property is guilty -- it is already presumed so. You will have to
prove that the property is innocent, which is hard to do. The court (you might not get a
jury at all) will rule based on a mere "preponderance of evidence".
You're going to have to pay all the costs for holding the trial.

As it turns out in practice, people never get their shit back, even if the supposed crime that
the property was allegedly tied to was tried and found Not Guilty. This doctrine was invented
to strip suspected drug lords of their money, cars, etc. But in the past decade, police are using
against regular people who are *accused* of minor crimes. Did I mention that the police get
to keep (or if they like, sell) your property? Police departments love this free money.

Does that civil forfeiture thing sound outrageous, unbelievable, insane,
and obviously against The Constitution?
Yes. Yes it does.

2-your car is your property.It is registered on your name and you pay taxes for it(VA).How is it unlawful to ASK somebody to leave your property?
Depends how you do it.
Recall that the police are hearing (and preferring to believe) the disgruntled pax version of how you did it.

It is similar to your yard at home. Most people have a kinda crazy notion that you can order people
off your property, wave guns or sticks at them, threaten them, touch them in the slightest,
or even shoot them if they are trespassing. Nothing could be further from the truth (at least in this part of the country).

Cars are even less protected.

3-how is that classified as "kidnaping",when the trip is still "on" when the cops have arrived,you are outside of your vehicle and you called the cops?
Trip meter has nothing to do with anything; it's your word against theirs.
Their going to say that you refused to let them out of the car and would not stop, etc.

The name of the crime and the details vary, but if you lock someone in your car and don't
let them out, that's "kidnapping", "unlawful confinement", etc. Among other felonies.

4-texting while driving,speeding and similar things are all possible to check via gps and google tracking.
5-what would stop me to say that I felt endangered first?
(What? You were texting while terrorizing them? LOL who said anything about texting?
Although I suppose the PAX could be texting. "In cr8zy Uber OMG"...)

Perhaps in a year when your trial comes up, and your lawyer has spent lots of your money
obtaining the GPS data, you can bring it into court. However, the police are on the scene
right now, listening to terrified crying passengers describe your insane road antics.
It's just your word against theirs. Why would these nice people lie?

The GPS data, by the way, is not detailed or accurate enough to figure out if you were
crazy driving. It could show that over the course of several miles, you must have been
speeding. (C'mon, it can't even tell what street I'm on half the time!)
 

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"

Lawyer Up with WHAT? Mints?
Can't.
Gave them all away already...

(Did you see the thread somewhere about the newbie driver who was giving out
chocolates, and was freaked out when one pax grabbed and ran off with all of them?
This web site really is good for something!)

OK, don't start with the "I gotchur chocolate right here..." stuff now.
 

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238 Posts
Most of the bad things that can happen immediately (such as being taken into custody) are part of
the police investigation, after which they may decide to charge you now.
Otherwise they more or less have to let you go after a couple of days.
However, they can find probable cause to keep you locked up on all kinds of
chargesof various degrees. Of course, they can also come back and charge you
anytime (weeks, months, years) later, after talking to the pax some more.

Some day, if permanently jailed, you will indeed have a trial, if you want.
But your life will have already been quite ruined by the time that trial comes.

Now, your property (i.e. you car) -- NO, it is not presumed innocent. What? Property can have
a guilt or innocence, independent of you yourself? Yup. This is a popular doctrine lately,
called "civil asset forfeiture". If the police have reason to believe that your property has
been involved in a crime, they can take your property, right then and there. You will not
get it back.

They do not need to have a conviction; they don't even need to charge you with anything.
Just an accusation. Your property is presumed to be "guilty". Eventually, someday (years),
you can have a separate trial to try and get it back. It will be a civil trial, so you do not have a
presumption of innocence, all your rights as an accused are irrelevant. The government will
not have to prove that the property is guilty -- it is already presumed so. You will have to
prove that the property is innocent, which is hard to do. The court (you might not get a
jury at all) will rule based on a mere "preponderance of evidence".
You're going to have to pay all the costs for holding the trial.

As it turns out in practice, people never get their shit back, even if the supposed crime that
the property was allegedly tied to was tried and found Not Guilty. This doctrine was invented
to strip suspected drug lords of their money, cars, etc. But in the past decade, police are using
against regular people who are *accused* of minor crimes. Did I mention that the police get
to keep (or if they like, sell) your property? Police departments love this free money.

Does that civil forfeiture thing sound outrageous, unbelievable, insane,
and obviously against The Constitution?
Yes. Yes it does.

Depends how you do it.
Recall that the police are hearing (and preferring to believe) the disgruntled pax version of how you did it.

It is similar to your yard at home. Most people have a kinda crazy notion that you can order people
off your property, wave guns or sticks at them, threaten them, touch them in the slightest,
or even shoot them if they are trespassing. Nothing could be further from the truth (at least in this part of the country).

Cars are even less protected.

Trip meter has nothing to do with anything; it's your word against theirs.
Their going to say that you refused to let them out of the car and would not stop, etc.

The name of the crime and the details vary, but if you lock someone in your car and don't
let them out, that's "kidnapping", "unlawful confinement", etc. Among other felonies.

(What? You were texting while terrorizing them? LOL who said anything about texting?
Although I suppose the PAX could be texting. "In cr8zy Uber OMG"...)

Perhaps in a year when your trial comes up, and your lawyer has spent lots of your money
obtaining the GPS data, you can bring it into court. However, the police are on the scene
right now, listening to terrified crying passengers describe your insane road antics.
It's just your word against theirs. Why would these nice people lie?

The GPS data, by the way, is not detailed or accurate enough to figure out if you were
crazy driving. It could show that over the course of several miles, you must have been
speeding. (C'mon, it can't even tell what street I'm on half the time!)
Jesus....you scared me now.
 

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Now u need to define "threat"

STEUBENVILLE, Ohio - An Ohio man was sentenced to life in prison for killing a man during argument over the last can of beer. (Threat?)
Richard Hendershot of Steubenville killed John Hazuda in March.
Stupid s#!+ always happens in Steubenville, it's why they are known as "Stupidville"

Then again, I hate all of Ohio, been trying to leave the state since I was 18
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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2,513 Posts
I get all my legal advice from anonymous Uber drivers

The police are not your friends, and they will not rescue you from riders.
They will always assume that the driver is insane, and that pax are victims.
This post started with complete BS and if you were dumb enough to keep reading (as I was and did) it became more BS. I've had a police officer intervene when a passenger wouldn't get his crap out my vehicle. The officer was very helpful and I went on my way in less than 5 minutes.
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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2,088 Posts
I get all my legal advice from anonymous Uber drivers

This post started with complete BS and if you were dumb enough to keep reading (as I was and did) it became more BS. I've had a police officer intervene when a passenger wouldn't get his crap out my vehicle. The officer was very helpful and I went on my way in less than 5 minutes.
It also depends attitude with dealing with the police. I have friends that are cops and have worked with some in the past. Number one rule is do not give the officer on the scene any shit. You can be 'wrong' even if legally you're right by having a shitty attitude.

If I get pulled over or have any interactions with the police, I am 'yes sir/ma'am' and keep your hands in full sight at all times.

I've never had to call cops on a passenger but have had to deal with cops and drunken idiots in the past. If you do get in a situation where you have to call the cops on a passenger, especially a drunk one, as pissed as you may be, take a breath and calm down before speaking to the officer. The drunk will probably be a jackass and if you're calm at the scene, it makes a HUGE difference in how the cop treats you.

Also as has been said before dashcam dashcam dashcam.
 
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