[ThrowInTheTowel]

Interesting that out of 10 votes cast at this point, no one thinks that the prospect of government regulation will be bad for Uber/Lyft. That's curious since the consensus among the companies and shareholders is that government regulation could force them out of business.

Makes me think that the responders here are either just knee-jerk voting, or they really don't know what the business model for profit is within the rideshare companies..

I think people are just smart enough to know when they hear someone "crying wolf." I remember back 20 years ago in my state when minimum wage was like $5.00 per hour. Every time there was a proposal to raise it like a dollar every mom and pop business would call up the radio station and cry the government needs to stay out of the free market they are gonna put us all out of business. Minimum wage increased a dollar and no one went out of business. 10 years later another proposal, more outcry. Again, no one went out of business. Fast forward now minimum wage is $14 headed for $15 January 2024. Guess what? 90% of those businesses are still around. On the bigger stage we have Uber/Lyft with a louder voice and bigger outcry singing the same tune.

 

[wallae]

A time ago I tried to debate this woman pointing out we can decline rides.
Also pointing out that I had a friend/acquaintance who was making 200 a week while I was making 1700
I tried to teach him. I said we’re gonna wait for a Surge at the airport and when its high enough we go online and only accept an airport trip.
Surge comes- goes was up, he goes on. A crap trip comes in a crappy area. I said don’t take that. His thumb is moving.., I said don’t take that. He accepts. Comes back *****ing
We repeated this 4 more times
Shouldn’t he make less than me.
I also spoke of another dumb guy, look like a bum off the street, with that crap Chevy cobalt that was dented all over and had no muffler
Should he make as much as me?

The woman blocked me.
I’m thinking she’s against Capitalism and maybe part communist.

We can’t all make the same. I’m not happy making what some of the guys are happy with.
As long as I can sit not accepting trips, canceling all the long unpaid return ride trips that are actual money losers I’m happy

I would love to make sure legally that Uber can’t have me as a subcontractor and treat me like an employee by firing me for canceling or missing trips

The House Always Wins: The Algorithmic Gamblification of Work

Recent technological developments are transforming the basic terms of worker compensation. Rather than receive a salary or predictable hourly wage, workers in the on-demand economy are often paid…

lpeproject.org

 

[ThrowInTheTowel]

A time ago I tried to debate this woman pointing out we can decline rides.
Also pointing out that I had a friend/acquaintance who was making 200 a week while I was making 1700
I tried to teach him. I said we’re gonna wait for a Surge at the airport and when its high enough we go online and only accept an airport trip.
Surge comes- goes was up, he goes on. A crap trip comes in a crappy area. I said don’t take that. His thumb is moving.., I said don’t take that. He accepts. Comes back *****ing
We repeated this 4 more times
Shouldn’t he make less than me.
I also spoke of another dumb guy, look like a bum off the street, with that crap Chevy cobalt that was dented all over and had no muffler
Should he make as much as me?

The woman blocked me.
I’m thinking she’s against Capitalism and maybe part communist.

We can’t all make the same. I’m not happy making what some of the guys are happy with.
As long as I can sit not accepting trips, canceling all the long unpaid return ride trips that are actual money losers I’m happy

I would love to make sure legally that Uber can’t have me as a subcontractor and treat me like an employee by firing me for canceling or missing trips

The House Always Wins: The Algorithmic Gamblification of Work

Recent technological developments are transforming the basic terms of worker compensation. Rather than receive a salary or predictable hourly wage, workers in the on-demand economy are often paid…

lpeproject.org

I know your just making a point but I will answer your question anyhow. No. When the quality of service is that drastic of a difference they should not be paid the same as you. I don't think it should be like that whether it is declared a contractor or W-2 position. Even in a W-2 environment they could easily clear out the herd and reward the 5 star drivers. It should already be a tier leveled pay system rewarding good drivers with a higher pay structure, long distant rides, unlimited destination filters, and a region locked area to work. As long as the driver maintains a certain rating they should be entitled to those benefits for being a dedicated and professional driver. Anytime access to the platform should also be included. Let lower rated drivers book time blocks and take the crappy rides. It gives them motivation to improve their rating and convert over to a better tier level. If they can't make the cut they don't belong on the platform. Passengers would have a much better experience.

 

[wallae]

I know your just making a point but I will answer your question anyhow. No. When the quality of service is that drastic of a difference they should not be paid the same as you. I don't think it should be like that whether it is declared a contractor or W-2 position. Even in a W-2 environment they could easily clear out the herd and reward the 5 star drivers. It should already be a tier leveled pay system rewarding good drivers with a higher pay structure, long distant rides, unlimited destination filters, and a region locked area to work. As long as the driver maintains a certain rating they should be entitled to those benefits for being a dedicated and professional driver. Anytime access to the platform should also be included. Let lower rated drivers book time blocks and take the crappy rides. It gives them motivation to improve their rating and convert over to a better tier level. If they can't make the cut they don't belong on the platform. Passengers would have a much better experience.

You should spend some time on uber support on twitter
They don’t even seem to care about the customers anymore

 

[coolblk]

Some politician want Ants votes, so they pretending to care

 

[LüberInLyft]

Which is only 'fair' isn't it?
I mean, we have to hold back smart kids so they don't make the lazy kids feel bad, right?
We give out trophies to everyone who played because we can't have 'winners and losers', it will make them feel bad.

Don't you think that a capable, hard working person should get the same thing as the lazy one?
What if the 'lazy one' is a minority, maybe we OWE him reparations for the way his great grandfather was treated. Shouldn't he make the same, or more, as the privileged pale one?

Equality for all.

I said the same thing in my local facebook group and the bidophiles told me to send my kids to private school. That's their solution.

 

[Buckiemohawk]

5 hours last night 200 dollars. I only took surges. Most of these other will take everything and drives miles to pick up calls

 

[UberBastid]

When the quality of service is that drastic of a difference they should not be paid the same as you. I don't think it should be like that whether it is declared a contractor or W-2 position. Even in a W-2 environment they could easily clear out the herd and reward the 5 star drivers.

I dunno about where YOU live, but where I live - that would not be possible.
If the person that the boss wanted to be rid of was his worse employee ... and also a one-legged mixed-race trans (wo)man .... not a chance.
She OWNS that job and will probably be able to put it in her will to next of kin; according to the upcoming 'reparations' law that our governor will soon pass.

Now, an old white guy? Oh yea. Someone overheard him talking about 'the girls'. That is a violation of several HR rules and he's fired next day (even if he didn't do it).

 

[ThrowInTheTowel]

I dunno about where YOU live, but where I live - that would not be possible.
If the person that the boss wanted to be rid of was his worse employee ... and also a one-legged mixed-race trans (wo)man .... not a chance.
She OWNS that job and will probably be able to put it in her will to next of kin; according to the upcoming 'reparations' law that our governor will soon pass.

Now, an old white guy? Oh yea. Someone overheard him talking about 'the girls'. That is a violation of several HR rules and he's fired next day (even if he didn't do it).

Here in New Jersey you are an " At Will" employee. You can be let go for any reason as long as it does not violate state law like for example discrimination. If you are not up to par or the boss just doesn't like your cologne you are out of here. It should not be an issue when you letting go of drivers with poor ratings, dirty cars, or a history of complaints. When I started Uber back in 2016 new drivers were given non stop lucrative rides your first month or two just to get you hooked. I made a killing as did most new drivers. They can easily set that same algorithm for drivers 4.85 and higher. That would probably even bring back the breath mints, charging cables, and bottled water service just to maintain that 4.85. A win win for everybody.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

The Poll Question here is asks
"Will this be a positive experience for gig workers?"

That's just another example of what everyone, from the press and media, to politicians and even drivers do. Everyone talks about gig workers as if they all belong to the same church for the same reason, and nothing could be further from the truth. We drivers are about as diverse a group of adults as you possibly assemble. What's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. Be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.

The answer is: Any change that may impact gig workers will be good for some, bad for some and have no impact on others.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

I think people are just smart enough to know when they hear someone "crying wolf."

Like those who voted to approve Prop 22 after Uber & Lyft spent a gazillion $ to support its passage?

I wish I had your optimism, but I've lived long enough to see all of us succumb to the same carefully crafted marketing campaigns over and over... how else can you explain the continued existence of Red Lobster?

 

[Rampage]

The Poll Question here is asks
"Will this be a positive experience for gig workers?"

That's just another example of what everyone, from the press and media, to politicians and even drivers do. Everyone talks about gig workers as if they all belong to the same church for the same reason, and nothing could be further from the truth. We drivers are about as diverse a group of adults as you possibly assemble. What's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. Be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.

The answer is: Any change that may impact gig workers will be good for some, bad for some and have no impact on others.

I normally argue with this guy ☝ but this is the best post on the thread. Case closed.

 

[DrvrChgo1]

With the quick replacement of the labor secretary position in Washington DC the Biden administration can now go forward with in acting federal guidelines and laws for wages and benefits for gig workers.

Biden to tap Julie Su as next Labor secretary

The current deputy Labor secretary will be nominated to replace Marty Walsh, according to two people familiar with the matter.

www.politico.com

View attachment 699310

Here is a really good interview where Kim Kavin goes over what is in the DOL’s proposed rule change to worker classification. And specifically the SIX FACTORS THAT WILL NOW BE USED TO DETERMINE IC OR EMPLOYEE CLASSIFICATION and it includes an explanation of how the DOL is planning to interpret these 6 factors in their decision making.
. It doesn’t sound like any of us would be able to pass the test in this new change in order to stay Independent Contractors.

RODEO LiVE: Independent Contractors in 2023 (w/Kim Kavin)

Today I have Kim Kavin as my guest. Kim is a well accomplished writer and author. Kim is also one the main voices in the fight to stay Independent Contract...

www.youtube.com

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

Here is a really good interview where Kim Kavin goes over what is in the DOL’s proposed rule change to worker classification. And specifically the SIX FACTORS THAT WILL NOW BE USED TO DETERMINE IC OR EMPLOYEE CLASSIFICATION and it includes an explanation of how the DOL is planning to interpret these 6 factors in their decision making.
. It doesn’t sound like any of us would be able to pass the test in this new change in order to stay Independent contractors

I read the proposal very carefully because I engage over 200 independent contractors in my business. I came to a very different conclusion. In my opinion, as long as the rideshare companies show drivers the distance to the pickup and the destination of the ride, along with estimated earnings, it should be a no-brainer for the rideshare companies to continue to classify drivers as independent contractors.

A few things to keep in mind if you're relatively new to the regulations. The DOL publishes guidelines. They do not make decisions on who is or is not an independent contractor. That is left to the employer. It can be challenged but the decision will be decided by a court, not the DOL.

Also, the parameters the DOL provides as guidelines do not carry equal weight. They allow an employer to consider each of the guidelines separately and assign their own weight to each one.

 

[DrvrChgo1]

With the quick replacement of the labor secretary position in Washington DC the Biden administration can now go forward with in acting federal guidelines and laws for wages and benefits for gig workers.

Biden to tap Julie Su as next Labor secretary

The current deputy Labor secretary will be nominated to replace Marty Walsh, according to two people familiar with the matter.

www.politico.com

View attachment 699310

Some interesting insight brought up regarding Julie Su and her performance in California Government and fraud that happened under her watch.

 

[DrvrChgo1]

I read the proposal very carefully because I engage over 200 independent contractors in my business. I came to a very different conclusion. In my opinion, as long as the rideshare companies show drivers the distance to the pickup and the destination of the ride, along with estimated earnings, it should be a no-brainer for the rideshare companies to continue to classify drivers as independent contractors.

A few things to keep in mind if you're relatively new to the regulations. The DOL publishes guidelines. They do not make decisions on who is or is not an independent contractor. That is left to the employer. It can be challenged but the decision will be decided by a court, not the DOL.

Also, the parameters the DOL provides as guidelines do not carry equal weight. They allow an employer to consider each of the guidelines separately and assign their own weight to each one.

More precisely the DOL ( and all Federal Departments) publish both Rules and Guidelines.
. Guidelines/guidance are general recommendations and describe the agencies current thinking and interpretation on a particular Rule. Guidelines themselves aren’t mandatory nor are they legally binding or enforceable.
Rules however are legally binding and can come with fines and penalties issued by that department/agency as well. What the DOL is doing here is issuing a Rule change, it isn’t simply issuing new or different guidance to the existing rule.

Yes, the employer makes the decision as to how it is going to classify a worker and also the DOL could come in and investigate a misclassification complaint and issue fines and penalties.
Then it could possibly end up in some appeal or lawsuit where yes, the court, not the DOL is going to have the final decision.

It will most likely happen that as soon as the final rule is issued there are going to be lawsuits filed against the Rule itself and prevented from even taking effect until a court rules on it… or that ruling might be appealed as well.. Who knows.. but it’s probably safe to says it will be months if not a year or more before much really changes. By then we are post election time again and that could mean something different. Or states could have enacted their own ABC test based type of legislation that changes things as well. That’s already on the move in a few states now and that’s gonna be bad news for anyone wanting to stay IC.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

More precisely the DOL ( and all Federal Departments) publish both Rules and Guidelines.
. Guidelines/guidance are general recommendations and describe the agencies current thinking and interpretation on a particular Rule. Guidelines themselves aren’t mandatory nor are they legally binding or enforceable.
Rules however are legally binding and can come with fines and penalties issued by that department/agency as well. What the DOL is doing here is issuing a Rule change, it isn’t simply issuing new or different guidance to the existing rule.

Yes, the employer makes the decision as to how it is going to classify a worker and also the DOL could come in and investigate a misclassification complaint and issue fines and penalties.
Then it could possibly end up in some appeal or lawsuit where yes, the court, not the DOL is going to have the final decision.

That's what I said - less the DoL fines thing. Can you find even 1 example of the DoL issuing a fine over misclassification? I can't. Lot's of cases where companies have been ordered to pay back wages and taxes - but the only penalties or fines I've ever seen have resulted from court cases (where the company challenges the DoL findings and loses in court).

 

[Diamondraider]

That's what I said - less the DoL fines thing. Can you find even 1 example of the DoL issuing a fine over misclassification? I can't. Lot's of cases where companies have been ordered to pay back wages and taxes - but the only penalties or fines I've ever seen have resulted from court cases (where the company challenges the DoL findings and loses in court).

Happens all the time

 

[DrvrChgo1]

That's what I said - less the DoL fines thing. Can you find even 1 example of the DoL issuing a fine over misclassification? I can't. Lot's of cases where companies have been ordered to pay back wages and taxes - but the only penalties or fines I've ever seen have resulted from court cases (where the company challenges the DoL findings and loses in court).

It would not surprise me if many penalties and fines end up in court just for the fact that many companies are just outright going to argue against the findings of the investigation. Provided they have the $$ to finance the litigation they will do what they can to argue their case and/or reduce their fines.
Just like many drivers decided to take their moving violation ticket to court in hopes of having the penalty reduced or even thrown out… the court ultimately imposed the fine but the person could have also just pled guilty and paid it outright when the regulatory agency ( police, state patrol, etc) issued
A small employer may not have the resources to litigate and just pay the fines and make the changes.

Or probably more common is going out of business because of the cost of the fines cannot be absorbed, in addition to the enormous added cost of suddenly haveing W2 employees instead of contractors.
They see that there is only going to be financial loss each year or perhaps they decide it is no longer worth it for them to take on that amount of responsibility, risk and liability for the x amount of dollars in profit they would be left with every year.,

From deel.com :
Real-life examples of misclassification penalties
Employee misclassification penalties aren’t theoretical: the DOL regularly punishes businesses of all sizes for misclassification.
Here are a few recent examples of companies that misclassified their employees as contractors and faced fines and legal consequences. Spoiler alert: it’s not just Uber.
In 2016, two Massachusetts construction companies intentionally misclassified over 400 employees. The consequence was $2,360,000 in fines (overtime and damages).
In 2021, Holland Services misclassified 700 employees. The DOL’s investigation of this case led to almost $43,277,000 that the company owed in back wages and damages.
Another case from 2021: Servant’s Quest violated the FLSA by misclassifying 50 workers. Due to unpaid overtime hours, they had to pay $358,675 in back wages.
A construction company’s owner was found guilty of misclassifying 30 construction workers who should have been employees. Since the authorities determined this act was intentional with the objective of not paying the taxes, the owner of G&R Drywall and Framingwas sentenced to almost two years of prison, with 12-month-long consecutive probation.

Here are links showing the destruction of and harm that has came to thousands of Independent Contractors and small businesses in Californian all because of AB5 in its reclassification of workers from Independent Contractors to Employees.
This DOL Rule Change is the excutive branch of government trying to get done at the national level what AB 5 did in CA through the state, because it hasnt been able to pass the Pro Act through Congress.

#26 | AB5 Destroyed Her Non-Profit w/Gail Gordon | Rideshare Rodeo Podcast

Uber Lyft Drivers & Gig Economy Workers Weekly News: This week we discuss the situation in Phoenix, the Death Traps Are Back! Waymo, the self-driving unit of Alphabet, is back on the road in Arizona, with driverless vehicles available to Waymo One Customers who sign air-tight non-disclosures...

uberlyftdrivers.podbean.com

Professions Harmed by AB5

Click on PDF to view:

rolls.bublup.com

AB5 Horror Headlines

A continuing collection of articles that document the destructive and disruptive effects of California's AB5 law across a vast expanse of businesses and professions. Join “Freelancers Against AB5” on Facebook

rolls.bublup.com

AB5 Personal Stories

Stories from "Freelancers Against AB5" documenting the negative impacts of Assembly Bill 5. Click on outline view for index of professions. For media inquiries, contact Karen Anderson via FB messenger at Freelancers Against AB5.

rolls.bublup.com

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

From deel.com :
Real-life examples of misclassification penalties

Read the reports you posted. In every case, the DoL took the companies to court and it was the court that ordered the fines and penalties. And in all cases, the DoL took the companies to court because it was determined that the misclassification was "willful misclassification" - not just a disagreement on the classification. The DoL isn't like a local or federal police department that can arrest you or fine you - it has to go to court and make the case that you are in violation of the law (FLSA). Thanks for looking up the examples - very interesting stuff - I appreciate it.