[Beninmankato]

There is one misconception that many drivers fall for including myself for years. And that is the idea that miles/dollars is the way to decide on whether to accept a trip or not. The better way to calculate is time/dollars. That in combination with destination location will lead to more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

When an offer comes in look at the time it will take, the amount it will pay and if the destination is in an area that you will most likely see more offers.

This holds true for both delivery and ride-share now that most of us see the fares before acceptance.

My standard is 1 dollar for every 2 minutes ($30/hr), You can adjust it as you see fit. But the point is if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

 

[Grubhubflub]

if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

So you're saying we'd make more if we drove faster?

 

[Zuständig]

So you're saying we'd make more if we drove faster?

Only if no one catches you.

BTW - Beninmankato makes a valid point. Your time is a LOT more valuable as a resource than any fuel you put into the vehicle. Especially if driving an EV or hybrid.

 

[Joe Saltucci]

There is one misconception that many drivers fall for including myself for years. And that is the idea that miles/dollars is the way to decide on whether to accept a trip or not. The better way to calculate is time/dollars. That in combination with destination location will lead to more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

When an offer comes in look at the time it will take, the amount it will pay and if the destination is in an area that you will most likely see more offers.

This holds true for both delivery and ride-share now that most of us see the fares before acceptance.

My standard is 1 dollar for every 2 minutes ($30/hr), You can adjust it as you see fit. But the point is if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

How about all three? When deciding whether to accept or decline an offer, why not consider time/miles/dollars all together? I know that's a lot of info to glean in the few short seconds the trip is showing......but maybe it's a good idea to train yourself to take it all in. You know.....like speed reading.

 

[Beninmankato]

How about all three? When deciding whether to accept or decline an offer, why not consider time/miles/dollars all together? I know that's a lot of info to glean in the few short seconds the trip is showing......but maybe it's a good idea to train yourself to take it all in. You know.....like speed reading.

Can you give a mathematical example of when/why you would need the miles/dollar ratio if you know the time/dollar ratio?

 

[Beninmankato]

So you're saying we'd make more if we drove faster?

Yes, in a nutshell.

 

[Joe Saltucci]

Can you give a mathematical example of when/why you would need the miles/dollar ratio if you know the time/dollar ratio?

I can not give a mathematical example but rather a practical one.
Time and miles do not always match up....there are often many obstacles to get to the point you're going....traffic, detours...speed limits vary all over.....I often get an estimate of time from Uber based on going 60 miles an hour, when in reality most of the ride is through 30 or 40 mph zones.. The payout on the time aspect of the ride is minimal and does not make up for the time you often spend on the ride. To me, the distance and dollars is definitely more important, I just think it's good to know if Uber is being honest giving you a time estimate.

 

[Beninmankato]

I can not give a mathematical example but rather a practical one.
Time and miles do not always match up....there are often many obstacles to get to the point you're going....traffic, detours...speed limits vary all over.....I often get an estimate of time from Uber based on going 60 miles an hour, when in reality most of the ride is through 30 or 40 mph zones.. The payout on the time aspect of the ride is minimal and does not make up for the time you often spend on the ride. To me, the distance and dollars is definitely more important, I just think it's good to know if Uber is being honest giving you a time estimate.

So you are saying you don't trust Uber's time estimate. That is fair, however I have found that their estimates are pretty accurate and need to be in order to satisfy both drivers and passengers needs.

I'll give a quick and easy mathematical example. Let's say you settle for the old standard $1 per mile. 10 miles will pay you $10. If that 10 miles takes you 10 minutes that's 60 an hour. However if that same 10 miles take 30 minutes you are at $20 an hour.

 

[Grubhubflub]

Let's say you settle for the old standard $1 per mile. 10 miles will pay you $10. If that 10 miles takes you 10 minutes that's 60 an hour. However if that same 10 miles take 30 minutes you are at $20 an hour.

So if you can figure out how to cover the same amount of distance in one third the time, you'll make three times as much. Brilliant!

 

[Beninmankato]

So if you can figure out how to cover the same amount of distance in one third the time, you'll make three times as much. Brilliant!

I'm referring to markets that give you the time estimate before acceptance. Not difficult at all.

 

[ObeyTheNumbers]

How about all three? When deciding whether to accept or decline an offer, why not consider time/miles/dollars all together? I know that's a lot of info to glean in the few short seconds the trip is showing......but maybe it's a good idea to train yourself to take it all in. You know.....like speed reading.

I considered time as a primary factor but the problem is one is burning out their vehicle and running up a tax bill, things that will need to taken care of by saving and reducing deadheading. If drivers were concerned about time, they wouldn't be doing ridesharing or deliveries to begin with and I'll post my numbers.

Last year 100,000 odometer miles (way too much, 80,000 better)

Gross 95,000 or .95 cents an odometer mile includes tips

75,000 in costs, including saving for replacement vehicle

30,000 in taxable income, apx. 10,000 for taxes and SSI.

Leaves 20,000 for rent, food and life expenses. No health insurance. Dental out of pocket.



Now to get an idea of time driving,

100,000 miles at average speed in our area is 40 mph or so including wait time

I come up with a rough average of 7 hours a day actually driving every day last year or a pay of about $7 AN HOUR plus $3 an hour average in tips after all costs rideshare related.

So basically if one sticks to the $1 per odometer mile minimum acceptance formula, treats pax well, they should be making the equivalent to an apx. $15 hour job before taxes.

Now here's the catch, I'm online 18 hours a day (5-6 am to 11-12 pm) to get that average 7 hours a day driving. I do Uber from my house as I live in a hot zone so I can rest (and put my feet up to give my leg muscles a rest after sitting) between surges of demand. A big advantage.

So if I'm only making $70 a day over 18 hours that's $3.90 per hour, just barely covers rent, food etc.


The $1+ per ODOMETER mile minimum acceptance rate is easy to calculate in the few short seconds upfront fares gives. Very simply if the two miles given when roughly added up is LESS THAN the compensation you DECLINE. Unless you were going that way anyway and willing to shave a few bucks off the cost of the ride. Tips are cushion.

If you consistently get below $1 per mile including tips, it means it's rideshare, the market is flooded with ants who can't do basic math or those doing it part time, cashing out some equity in their vehicle. Not worth doing as a sustainable income source.

For instance in Miami it's totally blown out, Uber is only covering vehicle costs .79 a mile one way for X and (.79 + .67) both ways for XL (includes time), so those poor fools are only working for tips and declining long trips on X. However in certain areas the volume is near constant and small trips make more because of the base fee + .50 gas charge and of course tips.


OK, so let's come around and figure for time since we have a floor to work from.

How much does one need to gross per hour in order to sustain themselves?

Well if $95,000 gross clears $20,000.

An average of 7 hours a day actually working is $95k/2555 hours is $37 an hour.

So $30 an hour is too low, shoot for $40 an hour. 😂

Edit: $37 an hour for 7 solid hours of driving is $260 a day.

 

[Grubhubflub]

I'm referring to markets that give you the time estimate before acceptance.

I thought that information was available in every market. Anyway, my point is that what you're stating is obvious.

 

[Joe Saltucci]

So you are saying you don't trust Uber's time estimate. That is fair, however I have found that their estimates are pretty accurate and need to be in order to satisfy both drivers and passengers needs.

I'll give a quick and easy mathematical example. Let's say you settle for the old standard $1 per mile. 10 miles will pay you $10. If that 10 miles takes you 10 minutes that's 60 an hour. However if that same 10 miles take 30 minutes you are at $20 an hour.

I have a good reason not to trust Uber with time estimates. Pretty much every day i get requests telling me that the pick up is 5 or 10 minutes away when I know very well that the pick up is absolutely 10-20 minutes away. And there's always the pick up time estimates that change as soon as you accept the ride.....and they're always longer.

 

[Schmanthony]

There is one misconception that many drivers fall for including myself for years. And that is the idea that miles/dollars is the way to decide on whether to accept a trip or not. The better way to calculate is time/dollars. That in combination with destination location will lead to more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

When an offer comes in look at the time it will take, the amount it will pay and if the destination is in an area that you will most likely see more offers.

This holds true for both delivery and ride-share now that most of us see the fares before acceptance.

My standard is 1 dollar for every 2 minutes ($30/hr), You can adjust it as you see fit. But the point is if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

I agree in general with your suggested approach. In Chicago, I drive only when the map is mostly red with hard surge during low or zero Boost hours (i.e. surge that I have some rational explanation for that I expect to last for many hours). The minimum that I target is $1/minute including both the pickup time and the trip time. If I find that I'm spending more time on the side of the road cherry picking or waiting for these trips to come in than I am actually doing them, then I figure it's time to head home or maybe I made a mistake and shouldn't even have left the house to begin with.

Keep in mind that this assumes Quest money is ho-hum to negligible, which it certainly has been lately. When Quests are very high on the other hand, say $10/trip, then my strategy will turn towards simply targeting super short trips with super short pickup times no matter how little they might pay.

 

[justaGoober]

There is one misconception that many drivers fall for including myself for years. And that is the idea that miles/dollars is the way to decide on whether to accept a trip or not. The better way to calculate is time/dollars. That in combination with destination location will lead to more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

When an offer comes in look at the time it will take, the amount it will pay and if the destination is in an area that you will most likely see more offers.

This holds true for both delivery and ride-share now that most of us see the fares before acceptance.

My standard is 1 dollar for every 2 minutes ($30/hr), You can adjust it as you see fit. But the point is if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

I agree 100%. There is nothing worse than a 5 mile, 30 minute trip from one side of the city (Baltimore or DC in my case) to the other. Yea, it may pay $2/mile, but in my book, it’s a total loser.

Having said that, with UFP, I can completely avoid the city now. So much better.

 

[ObeyTheNumbers]

I agree 100%. There is nothing worse than a 5 mile, 30 minute trip from one side of the city (Baltimore or DC in my case) to the other. Yea, it may pay $2/mile, but in my book, it’s a total loser.

Having said that, with UFP, I can completely avoid the city now. So much better.

A 5 mile, 30 minute trip that pays $2 a mile is only $20 an hour.

By my above math, need to be making $40 an hour for 7 hours driving or $260 a day in order to make ridesharing (borderline) profitable as an income source.

So yes I'll agree that time certainly plays a factor as Uber really is only paying when the wheels are rolling.

 

[ObeyTheNumbers]

OK, minimal grand theory is.

80,000 miles a year humanly possible (100,000 or more for super humans)

220 miles a day on average for $1 per mile or more including tips.

Need to make $260 per day or $1820 a week on average.

Drive 7 paying hours each day or apx 50 paying hours per week on average.

Take home pay, about $15,000.

 

[oldfart]

There is one misconception that many drivers fall for including myself for years. And that is the idea that miles/dollars is the way to decide on whether to accept a trip or not. The better way to calculate is time/dollars. That in combination with destination location will lead to more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

When an offer comes in look at the time it will take, the amount it will pay and if the destination is in an area that you will most likely see more offers.

This holds true for both delivery and ride-share now that most of us see the fares before acceptance.

My standard is 1 dollar for every 2 minutes ($30/hr), You can adjust it as you see fit. But the point is if you concentrate on time/dollar you will do better than distance/dollar.

Im one that has argued that dollars per mile was the only consideration. My logic was that I calculate my expenses on a per mile basis, so it only makes sense to me to calculate income on a per mile basis too. In addition, I dont care what I make per hour. My goal is to bank $4000 per month after gas. (maintenance and repairs and the car payment I have come out of that account) so I net about $3000 a month and I dont care how many hours it takes to do it

Having said that, I dont think it makes any difference what criteria you use to select the rides you take.

As an example, Today I took a 46 mile 48 minute ride north from the airport (RSW) that paid $30, On a per mile basis, not so good (65 cents per mile) on a per hour basis it was better than $30. and the the guy tipped me $13. So it worked on both counts
I did get a ride back south 38 miles and 57 min that paid $31 (81 cents per mile; $31/hr)
And then I had a 40 min, 25 mile ride back to the airport that paid $23 per hour or per mile, ok
add it all up and I drove 3 hours, 110 miles and earned $96. So per hour or per mile it works for me.

 

[Daisey77]

Can you give a mathematical example of when/why you need the miles/dollar ratio if you know the time/dollar ratio?

So in my market, there are several towns about an hour north of the city. There are frequently trips that go up that direction. The speed limit is 75 most of the way. The larger of town in the area is 63 miles or 1hr 9mins (from downtown to downtown). So you'd drive 63 miles for $35? These types of trips are pretty frequent going north west or south. No one goes east LOL

 

[oldfart]

Can you give a mathematical example of when/why you would need the miles/dollar ratio if you know the time/dollar ratio?

Why not consider both