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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Was going through some of my old papers today and noticed this rather timely thought.

"When communist artisans associate with one another, theory, propaganda, etc., is their first end. But at the same time, as a result of this association, they acquire a new need - the need for society - and what appears as a means becomes an end. ... the brotherhood of man is no mere phrase with them, but a fact of life, and the nobility of man shines upon us from their work-hardened bodies."

In many ways Uber People serves a pseudo association of thinking men all making and discussing points of view. If you would like to read further I have a link to my original manuscript.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm
 

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Was going through some of my old papers today and noticed this rather timely thought.

"When communist artisans associate with one another, theory, propaganda, etc., is their first end. But at the same time, as a result of this association, they acquire a new need - the need for society - and what appears as a means becomes an end. ... the brotherhood of man is no mere phrase with them, but a fact of life, and the nobility of man shines upon us from their work-hardened bodies."

In many ways Uber People serves a pseudo association of thinking men all making and discussing points of view. If you would like to read further I have a link to my original manuscript.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm
You wrote that?, Very impressive!, "All product is bait" so very true unfortunately from what I've seen on this forum is more argument and condemnation, condescending attitudes toward each other than anything helpful as a brotherhood might , thanks for posting the link , I'm sure you have more?
 

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Was going through some of my old papers today and noticed this rather timely thought.

"When communist artisans associate with one another, theory, propaganda, etc., is their first end. But at the same time, as a result of this association, they acquire a new need - the need for society - and what appears as a means becomes an end. ... the brotherhood of man is no mere phrase with them, but a fact of life, and the nobility of man shines upon us from their work-hardened bodies."

In many ways Uber People serves a pseudo association of thinking men all making and discussing points of view. If you would like to read further I have a link to my original manuscript.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm
we don't stick together as drivers
we cannibalize each other as drivers
we almost deserve what we get as drivers
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You wrote that?, Very impressive!, "All product is bait" so very true unfortunately from what I've seen on this forum is more argument and condemnation, condescending attitudes toward each other than anything helpful as a brotherhood might , thanks for posting the link , I'm sure you have more?
As good a starting point as any. It has been far too many years that I was a student, that said, I am struck almost every day now and especially as we live through the dying days of capitalism. These brilliant thoughts have more relevance now after laying dormant for a 170 years. Wealth creation has now reached a point where many of us could/should be given stipends or GUI and not for any other reason than to end bullshit jobs.

We should try and gather up some more quotes and relate them to what has happened to the labour force today. Obvious to many of us jobs will begin to disappear rapidly in the months and years ahead. Engels and Marx would be delighted to know their both back in the game and sorting out how to redistribute wealth and resources.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
 

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As good a starting point as any. It has been far too many years that I was a student, that said, I am struck almost every day now and especially as we live through the dying days of capitalism. These brilliant thoughts have more relevance now after laying dormant for a 170 years. Wealth creation has now reached a point where many of us could/should be given stipends or GUI and not for any other reason than to end bullshit jobs.

We should try and gather up some more quotes and relate them to what has happen to the labour force today. Obvious to many of us jobs will begin to disappear rapidly in the months and years ahead. Engels and Marx would be delighted to know their both back in the game and sorting out how to redistribute wealth and resources.

Thank you for your thought reply.
Thank you for your post keep that coming please , you know I'm just about at the point of just leaving all this shit for good , I have some nice property in northern Ontario where I will end up eventually , what really bothers me is the way we treat each other (I'm guilty too) all the while the top of the heap reap the rewards of our labour and we bite and chew on each other with such hatred it's truly sickening that we all do the realize this is exactly what they want .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thank you for your post keep that coming please , you know I'm just about at the point of just leaving all this shit for good , I have some nice property in northern Ontario where I will end up eventually , what really bothers me is the way we treat each other (I'm guilty too) all the while the top of the heap reap the rewards of our labour and we bite and chew on each other with such hatred it's truly sickening that we all do the realize this is exactly what they want .
Capitalism is a vicious circle and by its' nature has always divided and conquered. We are in the midst of surplus labour and surplus capital. Excess of Uber drivers and excess of investment capital equals bullshit jobs.

In Toronto as a case in point, we have a severe housing crisis. Why is it that Uber can bend all that capital to basically create bullshit jobs that don't even pay a living wage? Capitalists always chase the better more efficient machine. However, we now live in a technological state that will shortly make possible the elimination human labour in the making of most goods and services.

If capitalism can't even meet basic demands like housing than we have a severe crisis beyond simply supply and demand. We have a banking system that is so broken that we've been bailing them out since 2008 and I would contend well before the Great Recession.

Neoliberalism hasn't worked and so it is incumbent on the state to do what the banks either have failed at or simply don't have the balls to do. We need investment and now or this whole rotten system is going to collapse and this next time we won't be either morally or intellectually ready.

Uber is the result of the failures of a unfettered free market. Regulation and guidance in all manners of men is the over seer that keeps us sane, rational beings.
 

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Capitalism is a vicious circle and by its' nature has always divided and conquered. We are in the midst of surplus labour and surplus capital. Excess of Uber drivers and excess of investment capital equals bullshit jobs.

In Toronto as a case in point, we have a severe housing crisis. Why is it that Uber can bend all that capital to basically create bullshit jobs that don't even pay a living wage? Capitalists always chase the better more efficient machine. However, we now live in a technological state that will shortly make possible the elimination human labour in the making of most goods and services.

If capitalism can't even meet basic demands like housing than we have a severe crisis beyond simply supply and demand. We have a banking system that is so broken that we've been bailing them out since 2008 and I would contend well before the Great Recession.

Neoliberalism hasn't worked and so it is incumbent on the state to do what the banks either have failed at or simply don't have the balls to do. We need investment and now or this whole rotten system is going to collapse and this next time we won't be either morally or intellectually ready.

Uber is the result of the failures of a unfettered free market. Regulation and guidance in all manners of men is the over seer that keeps us sane, rational beings.
I hope it does collapse , hard!, And all this bullshit a wiped clean , a clean slate for everyone , no more debt for superficial B's , no more Uber rich that just worry about themselves and the $$$$ , let's level the field and see what we are truly made of , no more keyboard warriors spewing condescending tripe , no more power grid !, I for one have a plan if and when this happens (hopefully it works) and my bug out bags are packed !, Lol !
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I hope it does collapse , hard!, And all this bullshit a wiped clean , a clean slate for everyone , no more debt for superficial B's , no more Uber rich that just worry about themselves and the $$$$ , let's level the field and see what we are truly made of , no more keyboard warriors spewing condescending tripe , no more power grid !, I for one have a plan if and when this happens (hopefully it works) and my bug out bags are packed !, Lol !
Problem is we can't let it all collapse and certainly not all at once. We have personal and social responsibilities to at least try and make it work for us rather than for them. Bugging out might solve a personal issue to a broken system but in the long run we need to think of the collective good.

The first thing we need to do is reacquaint ourselves in the nomenclature of the elites, surprisingly you would be amazed at how stupid bankers can be. The wizards behind the curtain haven't a clue what their doing. When we rescued them in 2008 they showed no contrition nor did they ever apologize and worse than that they went back to their olds ways. We should have collective actions aimed at the bankers first. Suggestions most welcomed. Welfare for banks needs to end.
 

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Problem is we can't let it all collapse and certainly not all at once. We have personal and social responsibilities to at least try and make it work for us rather than for them. Bugging out might solve a personal issue to a broken system but in the long run we need to think of the collective good.
The first thing we need to do is reacquaint ourselves in the nomenclature of the elites, surprisingly you would be amazed at how stupid bankers can be. The wizard behind the curtain haven't a clue what their doing. When we rescued them in 2008 they showed no contrition nor did they ever apologize and worse than that they went back to their olds ways. We should have collective actions aimed at the bankers first. Suggestions most welcomed.
I know that some crooked bankers in Europe are being led to jail for thiere fraudulent ways but over here it's almost like a badge of honor to blatantly bend us over!, Bankers politicians all sleep together and the more the poor bastards like us get in debt, shite jobs the more they smile cause that exactly where they want us , even the guy making big bucks is usually severely in debt that's when they own us , they know then that there is no way out , slaves each and everyone of us.

Problem is we can't let it all collapse and certainly not all at once. We have personal and social responsibilities to at least try and make it work for us rather than for them. Bugging out might solve a personal issue to a broken system but in the long run we need to think of the collective good.

The first thing we need to do is reacquaint ourselves in the nomenclature of the elites, surprisingly you would be amazed at how stupid bankers can be. The wizards behind the curtain haven't a clue what their doing. When we rescued them in 2008 they showed no contrition nor did they ever apologize and worse than that they went back to their olds ways. We should have collective actions aimed at the bankers first. Suggestions most welcomed. Welfare for banks needs to end.
You still have faith Karl , mines wearing thin with worry about the future my kids are going to grow up in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I know that some crooked bankers in Europe are being led to jail for thiere fraudulent ways but over here it's almost like a badge of honor to blatantly bend us over!, Bankers politicians all sleep together and the more the poor bastards like us get in debt, shite jobs the more they smile cause that exactly where they want us , even the guy making big bucks is usually severely in debt that's when they own us , they know then that there is no way out , slaves each and everyone of us.
That is the nature of the beast. I would like to direct you to this post about Neoliberalism is the age of Trump. Not a long read but certainly a great starting point for further thought.

http://ppesydney.net/10-talking-points-towards-general-theory-trump/

I know that some crooked bankers in Europe are being led to jail for thiere fraudulent ways but over here it's almost like a badge of honor to blatantly bend us over!, Bankers politicians all sleep together and the more the poor bastards like us get in debt, shite jobs the more they smile cause that exactly where they want us , even the guy making big bucks is usually severely in debt that's when they own us , they know then that there is no way out , slaves each and everyone of us.

You still have faith Karl , mines wearing thin with worry about the future my kids are going to grow up in.
I do hear you. Paul Mason has written a book entitled Postcapitalism here is a wikipedia entry discussing some of the origins of his work. I like many contributors here had for the most part given up on trying to even think about changing a grotesque and barbaric system, until I read Mason's work.

Here is a Wikipedia entry explaining the origins of the movement.

Post-capitalism
includes a number of proposals for a new economic system to replace capitalism. According to some Classical Marxist and some social evolutionary theories, post-capitalist society may come about as a result of spontaneous evolution as capitalism becomes obsolete. Others propose models to intentionally replace capitalism. The most notable among them are socialism and anarchism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism

A Review by David Tyfield, Lancaster University of Mason's book is also an excellent introduction to labour theory theory and how the old guard of economics profession has been roundly criticized for not taking into account the impacts of AI. I have written Prof. Tyfield and he has told me he is in the midst of writing the 2nd half of his extensive review of Mason's book. I wrote to him and he replied back,

"I have actually had planned, for some time now, a final piece - on the issue of 'transitions' and utopianism in Mason's book. But I have been sidetracked by other writing commitments. But these may also perhaps be relevant in response to your query. I have recently completed a book manuscript on similar themes. It is now with the publisher and, all going smoothly, should be published in the summer. I will let you know when I have more news about the likely publication schedule."

I think we have some very good resources and I will be as thorough as I can be in sourcing for all.
 

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That is the nature of the beast. I would like to direct you to this post about Neoliberalism is the age of Trump. Not a long read but certainly a great starting point for further thought.

http://ppesydney.net/10-talking-points-towards-general-theory-trump/

I do hear you. Paul Mason has written a book entitled Postcapitalism here is a wikipedia entry discussing some of the origins of his work. I like many contributors here had for the most part given up on trying to even think about changing a grotesque and barbaric system, until I read Mason's work.

Here is a Wikipedia entry explaining the origins of the movement.

Post-capitalism
includes a number of proposals for a new economic system to replace capitalism. According to some Classical Marxist and some social evolutionary theories, post-capitalist society may come about as a result of spontaneous evolution as capitalism becomes obsolete. Others propose models to intentionally replace capitalism. The most notable among them are socialism and anarchism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism
Ah ya that's a nice light read!, Lol !, One thing that stuck out to me is the basic living wage to me this seems like a method of control that I don't think I would agree with . I need to study more of this !
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
That is the nature of the beast. I would like to direct you to this post about Neoliberalism is the age of Trump. Not a long read but certainly a great starting point for further thought.

http://ppesydney.net/10-talking-points-towards-general-theory-trump/

I do hear you. Paul Mason has written a book entitled Postcapitalism here is a wikipedia entry discussing some of the origins of his work. I like many contributors here had for the most part given up on trying to even think about changing a grotesque and barbaric system, until I read Mason's work.

Here is a Wikipedia entry explaining the origins of the movement.

Post-capitalism
includes a number of proposals for a new economic system to replace capitalism. According to some Classical Marxist and some social evolutionary theories, post-capitalist society may come about as a result of spontaneous evolution as capitalism becomes obsolete. Others propose models to intentionally replace capitalism. The most notable among them are socialism and anarchism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism
Ah ya that's a nice light read!, Lol !, One thing that stuck out to me is the basic living wage to me this seems like a method of control that I don't think I would agree with . I need to study more of this !
My apology, I messed up in the last post and did some post edits, take a look back. I do agree that a living wage is a definite certainty for many but not all people. David Tyfield will be discussing this in his forthcoming book which is now in press.

Issue of 'transitions' and utopianism in his 2nd half review of Paul Mason's Postcapitalism I am eagerly looking forward to reading. These fundamental questions have been woefully neglected by both the academic, monied and political elites.
 

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My apology, I messed up in the last post and did some post edits, take a look back. I do agree that a living wage is a definite certainty for many but not all people. David Tyfield will be discussing this in his forthcoming book which is now in press.

Issue of 'transitions' and utopianism in his 2nd half review of Paul Mason's Postcapitalism I am eagerly looking forward to reading. These fundamental questions have been woefully neglected by both the academic, monied and political elites.
I've googled Paul Mason just within the last few moments many different articles , going to check him out some more .

My apology, I messed up in the last post and did some post edits, take a look back. I do agree that a living wage is a definite certainty for many but not all people. David Tyfield will be discussing this in his forthcoming book which is now in press.

Issue of 'transitions' and utopianism in his 2nd half review of Paul Mason's Postcapitalism I am eagerly looking forward to reading. These fundamental questions have been woefully neglected by both the academic, monied and political elites.
I gotta ask , are you a full time Uber guy?, Your level of knowledge in economics is way way up there and would suggest otherwise lol .
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I've googled Paul Mason just within the last few moments many different articles , going to check him out some more .

I gotta ask , are you a full time Uber guy?, Your level of knowledge in economics is way way up there and would suggest otherwise lol .
To be honest I am for the most part self taught. I did Uber for a year and half. As a student I drove cab and limo, when I was fired from my corporate job I was no longer an appropriate corporate fit. I could have and should have retired but I spent a life time working and meeting new people everyday in my work. Even the most vile corporate people I found interesting as studies. During the course of a lifetime I learned that the experts regularly screw up and many who have credentials in no way deserve them.

The reason I find Mason so interesting is that he is a musician by training. He has a unique ability to cut through the bullshit and more importantly he knows how to challenge orthodoxy. Strangely, his work as a journalist mirrors much of my own experience working with academic economists. Many in the economic profession are straight out incompetent or corrupt. Many in the economics 'profession' call him a charlatan. I can assure you he is not.

We are to the point where we have to quickly begin experiments in the real world. Capitalism has been on the descent for several decades and we no longer have time to waste. In many ways I've had a fortunate life and if I can turn my pleasure for work into helping solve some of these pressing issues and it would make me pleased to keep on learning. Strangely I think this forum is a wonderful space to discuss the demise of capitalism as well as the future of a world where we can all become participating citizens focused on the common good. Greed, consumption and waste is no longer an acceptable model going forward.
 

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To be honest I am for the most part self taught. I did Uber for a year and half. As a student I drove cab and limo, when I was fired from my corporate job I was no longer an appropriate corporate fit. I could have and should have retired but I spent a life time working and meeting new people everyday in my work. Even the most vile corporate people I found interesting as studies. During the course of a lifetime I learned that the experts regularly screw up and many who have credentials in no way deserve that piece of paper.

The reason I find Mason so interesting is that he is a musician by training. He has a unique ability to cut through the bullshit and more importantly he knows how to challenge orthodoxy. Strange as it is his work as a journalist mirrors much of my own experience working with academic economists. Many in the economic profession are straight out incompetent or corrupt. Many in the 'profession' call him a charlatan. I can assure you he is not.

We are to the point where we have to quickly begin experiments in the real world. Capitalism has been on the descent for several decades and we no longer have time to waste. In many ways I've had a fortunate life and if I can turn my pleasure for work into helping solve some of these pressing issues it wold make me pleased to feel useful. Strangely I think this forum is a wonderful space to discuss the demise of capitalism as well as the future of a world where we can all become participating citizens focused on the common good. Greed, consumption and waste is no longer a acceptable model going forward.
Agreed , I've started to read him and will continue to do so . Funny you mentioned he is a musician as am I , which is extremely hard to make a living in this digital age , eg;15 yrs ago I released an EP which received radio play at that time for the one song after one year I made $950 for it to make this same amount of money today it would take approx 18yrs!, Now we get paid .0001 of a cent , people don't know what the true meaning of music nor the healing power it holds , this is now a one off instant gratification society and IMO is crumbling at a rapid pace ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
karl max do u drive uber
or are you and author -- w tf
I drove Uber for a year and a half. Retired this past June. I have a Toronto Limo license until March 17th. Come from a family of Taxi drivers on my mother and father's side. Started driving when I was in high school in the late 70's and limo while an undergrad and graduate student at Uof T and Western.

Agreed , I've started to read him and will continue to do so . Funny you mentioned he is a musician as am I , which is extremely hard to make a living in this digital age , eg;15 yrs ago I released an EP which received radio play at that time for the one song after one year I made $950 for it to make this same amount of money today it would take approx 18yrs!, Now we get paid .0001 of a cent , people don't know what the true meaning of music nor the healing power it holds , this is now a one off instant gratification society and IMO is crumbling at a rapid pace ..
You might remember this by Fatback, Is This The Future? 1983.

 
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