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This week I am writing to the fairworks commission about Uber unfairly calculating their fee on the GST amount too.

Can I ask all guys and gals in this forum to write to the fairworks commissio too.

We should ask Uber to pay back the excessive fee charged to drivers so far..
 

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Hatchback1, I have contacted the ACCC about this some time ago and they referred me to the ATO. That advice was incorrect because the breach, in my opinion, is not taxation related per se! Must admit I hadn't thought of the Fair Work Commission but you've reinvigorated me to check this out
 

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Missed that little by-line! I'm really interested now! For all the antics of Uber this double-dipping of their fee is one of their big disgusting mongrel act yet has largely been ignored as people whined and moaned about paying GST
 

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I'm with you on this, the more i think about it the worse it seems. It's one thing to register offshore and be GST neutral as e.g. Facebook and all the others are, but to actually take us drivers down even further as Uber is, it's just wrong and all the other words that you have used. If William Wilberforce were alive today, he'd have a thing or two to say about Uber - or maybe not?

So Graham, apologies if you've already posted this, but what is the effect of the GST rort on every $1,000 in fares that we generate for Uber (can you show both 20% and 25% commission rates please)
 

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Duderx, that Amazing Grace! Let's hope this gets some legs! Qantas B and Hatchback1, let us know if any assistance is needed!
 

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I hope you can see where I'm going with this?

In past working lives I have dealt with the ACCC and other regulators. Unless the issue involves significant rorts (i.e. above $1 Million) they're not interested. this is why I'm interested in the quanta of the numbers from Graham.
 

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So Graham, apologies if you've already posted this, but what is the effect of the GST rort on every $1,000 in fares that we generate for Uber (can you show both 20% and 25% commission rates please)
For 20% commission GST = $90.91 and commission is $200. The commission should only be $181.82 so the "rort" is approximately $18.20
For 25% commission GST = $90.91 and commission is $250. The commission should only be $227.27 so the "rort" is approximately $22.70

Oh, well in excess of $1M
 

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This week I am writing to the fairworks commission about Uber unfairly calculating their fee on the GST amount too.

Can I ask all guys and gals in this forum to write to the fairworks commissio too.

We should ask Uber to pay back the excessive fee charged to drivers so far..
Hi hatchback I wish you the best of luck and hope you have better reply from Fair Work than I did.
My Inquiry was not related to GST but was related to Uber preventing me from Working.

But the response was basically a hand ball
Hi Graham
Your enquiry falls outside the jurisdiction of the Fair Work Ombudsman.
You may wish to seek independent legal advice.
 

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So as an Uber driver earning $10K pa, having joined uber after September 2015 on 25% commission, Uber is depriving the driver of $220.70 for every $10k that the driver earns for Uber. Whoever is responsible for Uber's Australian operations, please take a look at this situation. I know it's the ATO's ruling, but please, this is wrong.
 

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Hi Graham
Your enquiry falls outside the jurisdiction of the Fair Work Ombudsman.
You may wish to seek independent legal advice.
You should refer this comment to Hatchback1 because I also believe that is out of their jurisdiction.

Let's look at the "rort" from a slightly different angle! When the ATO ruled in August 2015 that drivers must pay GST on the full fare. Uber increased fares by 10% to cover this. At that time drivers were on 20% so pre-ruling for a $1000 fare you paid $200 to Uber leaving us with $800! Post-ruling the $1000 was increased to $1100 and we paid $100 to the ATO and $220 to Uber leaving us with $780. Net outcome is that drivers lost money and Uber increased their grab. For those of you who can remember when GST was introduced in 2000 there were very hefty fines dealt out to companies who were caught profiteering from the introduction of the GST! It seems that Uber have decided to thumb their noses at those very strict laws which were introduced back in 2000.

I know it's the ATO's ruling, but please, this is wrong.
I don't believe this is a taxation matter. The ATO is getting its money and from their perspective they don't care about the relationship between Uber and their drivers. But the consumer watchdog should be very interested because it is profiteering by Uber on a tax!
 

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You should refer this comment to Hatchback1 because I also believe that is out of their jurisdiction.

Let's look at the "rort" from a slightly different angle! When the ATO ruled in August 2015 that drivers must pay GST on the full fare. Uber increased fares by 10% to cover this. At that time drivers were on 20% so pre-ruling for a $1000 fare you paid $200 to Uber leaving us with $800! Post-ruling the $1000 was increased to $1100 and we paid $100 to the ATO and $220 to Uber leaving us with $780. Net outcome is that drivers lost money and Uber increased their grab. For those of you who can remember when GST was introduced in 2000 there were very hefty fines dealt out to companies who were caught profiteering from the introduction of the GST! It seems that Uber have decided to thumb their noses at those very strict laws which were introduced back in 2000.

I don't believe this is a taxation matter. The ATO is getting its money and from their perspective they don't care about the relationship between Uber and their drivers. But the consumer watchdog should be very interested because it is profiteering by Uber on a tax!
My question to the ATO is this how much GST has Uber payed since the ruling short answer $0.

For every $100 we collect $10 is payable to the ATO for GST, Uber commission is calculated on the $100 not the $90 meaning I can claim this as a GST Credit at the end of QTR so I am not out of pocket but the ATO is out of pocket $2 because Uber has not declared the $2 GST on the $20 commission they have taken from the fare

Am I wrong here?
 

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My question to the ATO is this how much GST has Uber payed since the ruling short answer $0.

For every $100 we collect $10 is payable to the ATO for GST, Uber commission is calculated on the $100 not the $90 meaning I can claim this as a GST Credit at the end of QTR so I am not out of pocket but the ATO is out of pocket $2 because Uber has not declared the $2 GST on the $20 commission they have taken from the fare

Am I wrong here?
Pajala, with all due respect you are mostly wrong! Don't feel bad because it is very confusing until you get your head around a few things:

  1. Firstly for you to pay $10 GST you have will have collected $110 and not $100. In reality you are not paying the GST, the passenger did and what you are doing is passing it on to the tax office, it was never yours in the first place! This is a really important point because people seem to get upset that we, the drivers, have to pay GST while Uber get away with not paying it. Neither Uber or the driver pay, it's the passenger who pays it. This normal, fair and legal. It's the next part where Uber really craps on us.
  2. Uber's commission is calculated on the total fare, which contains GST, so using your 20% example, commission is $110 * 0.2 = $22. Uber have charged a commission on a tax! That is the bloody rort! Back to my point 1, people are sweating about stuff that is legal and correct and letting this little rort fly under the radar!
  3. On the Uber fee of $22 you do NOT pay GST because Uber is registered offshore and they in turn don't pay any GST. So you can claim the full $22 as an expenses but you CANNOT claim any GST credit. If Uber were registered for GST you would not be paying them $22 you would, in fact, be paying them $24.20 and you would receive a $2.20 credit.
In my real business I regularly pay and receive commissions to/from various companies and I've never, never seen a transaction where the commissions are calculated on the GST inclusive total. I'm quite positive that if I did that the ACCC would jump on me from a great height so why are bastards at Uber getting away with it?

So in "normal business" and using the example above for a $110 fare, $10 is paid to the tax man, and $20 is paid to Uber not $22! If Uber were registered for GST their commission would be $20 + GST ($22). Uber would pass on $2 to the tax man and we would take it back as a credit! Again a key point here is GST is supposed to be revenue neutral for a registered company, no company is supposed to make a profit or a loss on GST, that is against the rules!
 

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thanks for the clarification I have always got my account to do my bas statements to ensure I am paying the correct amount as I know we are so under the microscope from the ATO. Would be nice to see Uber put under the same heat I knew what they where doing on charging commission on the GST was incorrect but has anyone challenged Uber directly on this?
 

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Uber have written it into their contract so they will relinquish this without a fight! However just because it's in a contract that doesn't automatically make it legal.

This is an extract from Section 4.4 of the contract:

"Unless regulations applicable to your Territory require otherwise, taxes will be calculated and charged on the Delivery Fee and Portier Pacific shall calculate the Service Fee based on the Delivery Fee inclusive of such taxes."
 

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So as an Uber driver earning $10K pa, having joined uber after September 2015 on 25% commission, Uber is depriving the driver of $220.70 for every $10k that the driver earns for Uber. Whoever is responsible for Uber's Australian operations, please take a look at this situation. I know it's the ATO's ruling, but please, this is wrong.
I have an incline Uber will probebly be making an announcement soon regarding the ATO court case and are likly to stop calculating the commission on the GST due. Unless of course they are planning to appeal the court decision which may explain why they continue to be in the wrong.

They are in for massive fines otherwise, what they are doing is against the law. Uber Australia directors will have alot to answer for should this continue, it is clearly illegal now after the court ruling.
 

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They are in for massive fines otherwise, what they are doing is against the law. Uber Australia directors will have alot to answer for should this continue, it is clearly illegal now after the court ruling.
I believe it's been illegal since August 2015 but the latest ruling might just focus the blowtorch back to their bellies. If anyone has followed my rants on this topic they'll know I've been saying this is far, far more significant than GST and the tax office!

OK, let me also remind you of another stunt they pull which is even worse and that is the booking or split fare fee! This one keeps under the radar because of the piddling amounts but actually worse than the commission on the GST rort. The spit fare fee is something passengers can do to split the fare between themselves if they all have an Uber account. I think it's about $0.30/person so typically you'll see it as somewhere between $0.60 and $1.20 for 2 to 4 passengers. Uber give it to us as income then take the exact amount back as a fee. Because it is an income we must pay the GST but we cannot claim a credit for that fee! Those tiny little fees are actually leaving drivers out of pocket! This should be lumped into the story as well
 
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