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My calculated net hourly pay after expenses is

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Les Ants,

I often hear a lot of complaints on here about what the Ants are earning. I'm here to dispel those myths using evidenced-based empirical research as opposed to the hit pieces run by often left-leaning news outlets.

Linked is a New York Times piece that summarizes and attempts to discredit the 136 page Cornell piece that is also linked. The study was conducted using data from both UBER and Lyft. This is the most rigorous study I have seen on the topic and the methodologies are sound. It adjusts earnings in ways that I have been advocating for for some time.

For instance, it nets out the time that ants are running both apps, ie. if you are running both apps for an hour, it counts it as an hour, not two. This is a huge adjustment for the denominator. It also only includes incremental costs and excludes things like insurance, which the Ant would be paying for regardless. It also deducts depreciation due to the aging of the vehicle, which again would happen regardless of Anting. It includes depreciation from mileage (note that the diminution in value of a vehicle has two components - the age and the mileage). The most controversial exclusion is wait time when not actively driving or en route to a pickup. If you believe that time should be included, you can deduct $2.50 from the levels below.

After applying this thoughtful analysis, the researchers concluded that part-time Ants, which they peg as 85% of the population, make $23.25/hour AFTER expenses or $46,500 annually based on 40 hrs. a week for 50 weeks a year. Full-time Ants make $17.40/hour or $34,800 annually. Many recent college graduates are making between $39-$48k as illustrated by the table below.

For a profession (Anting) that requires no education and very little skill, it appears that the Ants are being overcompensated.


605557





Toodles,

De La Creme
 

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Les Ants,

I often hear a lot of complaints on here about what the Ants are earning. I'm here to dispel those myths using evidenced-based empirical research as opposed to the hit pieces run by often left-leaning news outlets.

Linked is a New York Times piece that summarizes and attempts to discredit the 136 page Cornell piece that is also linked. The study was conducted using data from both UBER and Lyft. This is the most rigorous study I have seen on the topic and the methodologies are sound. It adjusts earnings in ways that I have been advocating for for some time.

For instance, it nets out the time that ants are running both apps, ie. if you are running both apps for an hour, it counts it as an hour, not two. This is a huge adjustment for the denominator. It also only includes incremental costs and excludes things like insurance, which the Ant would be paying for regardless. It also deducts depreciation due to the aginng of the vehicle, which again would happen regardless of Anting. It includes depreciation from mileage (note that the diminution in value of a vehicle has two components - the age and the mileage). The most controversial exclusion is wait time when not actively driving or en route to a pickup. If you believe that time should be included, you can deduct $2.50 from the levels below.

After applying this thoughtful analysis, the researchers concluded that part-time Ants, which they peg as 85% of the population, make $23.25/hour AFTER expenses or $46,500 based on 40 hrs. a week for 50 weeks a year. Full-time Ants make $17.40/hour. $34,800. Many recent college graduates are making between $39-$48k as illustrated by the table below.

For a profession (Anting) that requires no education and very little skill, it appears that the Ants are being overcompensated.


View attachment 605557




Toodles,

De La Creme
The premise of your article is that a university degree guarantees a well paying job, due to the investment in the cost of the degree. However, that is not assured or guaranteed. Especially if you have an libertyl arts degree.

Overpay is only meaningful after factoring the cost of living in your area. Anyone living in NYC or SF, will definitley not be overpaid because the cost of living is so high and unaffordable. No matter how much income you make, you will never be overpaid compared to Technology CEOs paid in 7 figures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The premise of your article is that a university degree guarantees a well paying job, due to the investment in the cost of the degree. However, that is not assured or guaranteed. Especially if you have an libertyl arts degree.

Overpay is only meaningful after factoring the cost of living in your area. Anyone living in NYC or SF, will definitley not be overpaid because the cost of living is so high and unaffordable. No matter how much income you make, you will never be overpaid compared to Technology CEOs paid in 7 figures.
No one implied that a degree guarantees a well-paying job. I posted that data to compare to what the average Ant is earning to help elucidate whether, in fact, the Ants are paid as poorly as some here would have you believe. I contended that an Ant with no real skills, no education, no need to even speak the dominant language, should not be as highly compensated as your average college grad, regardless of degree.

One of the most important skills one can possess is the ability to write concisely and cogently. Liberal arts graduates tend to excel in this regard.

I think cost of living is somewhat important, but I'd need to see what the average college grad with those same majors is earning in those locations to have an informed opinion.

If Tech CEOs are so overpaid, why don't just become one and reap the rewards? Oh, because you can't - because they are exceptional talents, with exemplary educations, and the skills necessary to rise through the ranks of a massive organization to reach the pinnacle. All it takes to become an Ant is a car and 30 seconds to download an app.
 

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No one implied that a degree guarantees a well-paying job. I posted that data to compare to what the average Ant is earning to help elucidate whether, in fact, the Ants are paid as poorly as some here would have you believe. I contended that an Ant with no real skills, no education, no need to even speak the dominant language, should not be as highly compensated as your average college grad, regardless of degree.

One of the most important skills one can possess is the ability to write concisely and cogently. Liberal arts graduates tend to excel in this regard.

I think cost of living is somewhat important, but I'd need to see what the average college grad with those same majors is earning in those locations to have an informed opinion.

If Tech CEOs are so overpaid, why don't just become one and reap the rewards? Oh, because you can't - because they are exceptional talents, with exemplary educations, and the skills necessary to rise through the ranks of a massive organization to reach the pinnacle. All it takes to become an Ant is a car and 30 seconds to download an app.
...most important skill to be a technology CEO is the ability be deceitful and unethical. That describes Travis Kalanick and his sucesssor Dara. LOL

:unsure::unsure::unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
...most important skill to be a technology CEO is the ability be deceitful and unethical. That describes Travis Kalanick and his sucesssor Dara. LOL

:unsure::unsure::unsure:
So, if only you had the ability to be deceitful and unethical, you'd be the CEO of a $90B company? How are either of the fine gentlemen you mentioned deceitful or unethical? Let me guess, they dont pay the Ants enough? That brings me back to the whole point of this post.

Sure you and the other Ants may want more pay, but what is your basis for believing you deserve more pay?

To frame this discussion another way, what would be fair pay? What hourly/annual compensation is just for the job?
 

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...most important skill to be a technology CEO is the ability be deceitful and unethical. That describes Travis Kalanick and his sucesssor Dara. LOL

:unsure::unsure::unsure:
Or, as a college professor told me once: "Making mistakes is fine. It is expected. What's important is your learned ability to deflect and place blame on others."

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Or, as a college professor told me once: "Making mistakes is fine. It is expected. What's important is your learned ability to deflect and place blame on others."

.
Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.
 

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So, if only you had the ability to be deceitful and unethical, you'd be the CEO of a $90B company? How are either of the fine gentlemen you mentioned deceitful or unethical? Let me guess, they dont pay the Ants enough? That brings me back to the whole point of this post.

Sure you and the other Ants may want more pay, but what is your basis for believing you deserve more pay?

To frame this discussion another way, what would be fair pay? What hourly/annual compensation is just for the job?
Bottom line, investor's money is being squandered and wasted. The CEO, Dara, has only slowed down the cash burn but have yet to produce a profit. And, Uber's only game plan is to take from the drivers and the restaurants in Uber Eats. Its true greed when a company takes 50-80% of the fare for running an app and providing commerical insurance for the ride (How much does it cost to run a server on a cloud?). The don't pay for any cars (leased or owned), anyone's gasoline or maintenance and yet they are unable to turn a profit. Any monkey can run a money losing company. You give away free rides and free food vouchers to customers with the investor's money and this has done nothing to lead to profitability. Uber's current share price has already priced in future non existent earnings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bottom line, investor's money is being squandered and wasted. The CEO, Dara, has only slowed down the cash burn but have yet to produce a profit. And, Uber's only game plan is to take from the drivers and the restaurants in Uber Eats. Its true greed when a company takes 50-80% of the fare for running an app and providing commerical insurance for the ride (How much does it cost to run a server on a cloud?). The don't pay for any cars (leased or owned), anyone's gasoline or maintenance and yet they are unable to turn a profit. Any monkey can run a money losing company. You give away free rides and free food vouchers to customers with the investor's money and this has done nothing to lead to profitability. Uber's current share price has already priced in future non existent earnings.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are Monday-morning quarterbacking at the same time. Management must decide where to allocate capital and have to do their best to understand what projects will work and which won't. It is also up to them to understand threats to the business (self-driving) and decide whether they will ignore the threats, or invest to stave them off. If they didn't invest in self-driving and the company when to zero when it ate their lunch, you would be calling them idiots for not recognizing the threat and investing accordingly.

Where do you get the 50-80% figure? Take rate on mobility is public information and most recently was 21.5% exUK which is relatively inline with historicals and much different than the 50-80% you suggest. Including UK it was only 12.6%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@Gone_in_60_seconds Whether you believe they had done an adequate job positioning the company and allocating capital, has nothing to do with ethics or deceit. We can sit here all day and argue about how well they have operated strategically, but I'm still interested in why you believe they have been deceitful or unethical.
 

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Ok 2 questions on the ants est of $17 an hour. what is he paying into sss- workmans comp. and self employment taxes and city taxes. i do a different platform. your numbers are wrong. wont debate why or how. are you a driver. if so whats your per hour rate. i know mine after fuel-tax- all expenses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok 2 questions on the ants est of $17 an hour. what is he paying into sss- workmans comp. and self employment taxes and city taxes. i do a different platform. your numbers are wrong. wont debate why or how. are you a driver. if so whats your per hour rate. i know mine after fuel-tax- all expenses.
The study does not take taxes into account, however, I do believe there is relatively favorable tax incentives for Ants (ie. $0.56/mile is much higher than actual costs). Everyone pays taxes, so I think figuring taxes is not too meaningful and distracts from the larger point. Other than taxes, why not explain why their assumptions are wrong?

Yes, I drive part-time and only Lux, so my metrics are not too meaningful to the larger discussion.

What is your gross hourly average income?
 

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$57.15 hr. City tax. And all expenses. About 1k partime do the math for gross hours.
You guys are so book smart. The ant does 10 years uber has no sss. Do that math.
I am 7 years in all platforms in my city done. 21k rides . Ready to retire soon.
 

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$57.15 hr. City tax. And all expenses. About 1k partime do the math for gross hours.
You guys are so book smart. The ant does 10 years uber has no sss. Do that math.
I am 7 years in all platforms in my city done. 21k rides . Ready to retire soon.
Is that hourly earning on Uber X, Comfort, XL, Lux, or Black?
 

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X xl wav...
Hey gone think the border will open soon in Montreal. I heard 31st. Pax. Told me mid August. We want to go thier early sept 7 to 10 days
Been to Toronto a few times.
Oh comfort too. Be at this 7 years. It is not easy. I owe government every year no way around it. I dont do 1000 miles a week
 
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