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Should Melb. share drivers make a group approach to Uber to negotiate a rate increase?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 90.5%
  • No

    Votes: 2 9.5%

POLL: Should Melb. share drivers make a group approach to Uber for a rate increase?

4K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  UberPlates 
#1 ·
Trying out a poll to see how it flies.

It says in our contract that we can approach Uber to negotiate rates....may seem like a pie in the sky, but there are some very good reasons to actually try do it:

1. Having officially approached Uber about a rate increase, we can then let the world/press know the results of the discussion
2. The ATO keeps telling us that these matters are for us and the Facilitator to work out between ourselves...if we actually make a formal attempt to do this, we then have recourse to approach the Govt or ATO to say that we have tried it, and share the results.
3. You have to start somewhere.
4. Uber is getting bad press and could use a good news story right about now...maybe a genuine hourly income guarantee until we know the decision of the court case, or ask for a straight out rate increase, it would look great for them and let the latte sipping politically correct feel just a smidge better about using Uber again....Uber might be tempted to take advantage of this: a good news story of how they do negotiate with drivers: right about now, it's a cheap good news story for them as Melb drivers are a small population
 
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#4 ·
The better idea would be to follow the French taxi drivers approach - close down roads, burn tires, overturn cars and bash the crap out of a taxi drivers car.

There is no point in making a group approach to Uber when there are 5000 drivers lined up at the office ready to sign up as drivers.

Maybe don't go the French approach, but maybe get drivers to pool some money together and park one of those great big mobile advertising vehicles outside the Uber offices with something like "Uber lies to drivers" in bold print all over it?
 
#5 ·
There is a question of how we would approach:

1. Make an appointment and send a couple of representatives to negotiate
2. write a group letter and all sign
3. all send the same or similar email
4. show up as a group to the Melb office

I think a combo of 2., 3. then 1. in that order, then if these don't work, try 4.
 
#11 ·
*Uber should collect and pay GST before paying out to driver
*Driver should have annual summary including mileage, fare, toll, GST, pay out
*Increase fare to compensate GST
OK, no worries.

Some of the most influential people on the forum are from that part of the world ;) You might be surprised.

It is great that you have been able to network with so many other peeps and get a group email into Uber. Have you had any response?

May we please use some of your email as a basis for the group email we are planning to send after this poll is finished? It seems to be slowing down now. I'd be very pleased if we could collaborate together on the final for this email if you'd be interested?
 
#13 ·
Ok, well that's a result,

Now we know the sample size was too small. And somebody has tried. Lets try again with more peeps and an email that most can agree on. Keep it general maybe? Just say we want to open a dialog re rates, as per our contract.

Hopefully we can gather more "senders" or "signatures", ask everyone to spread the word.

I know how to get to the slightly higher ups: Someone who says he can "flick requests" to the boss. I made contact when I first signed up with a letter I wrote to the ATO and now I have phone number and email.

;)
 
#14 ·
hi peoeple my uber buddies call me a sceptic but all this talk is empty crap the core of the matter we r not dealing with LYFT but the company wich has surpassed every thing in the market of moving people from A TO B.
Indian drivers get the centerlink payments work part time as couriers for Aus post and full time ubering so there is more than plenty of drivers at any time complain or not gst or not they dont give a rats ass
 
#17 ·
THis is the be

The BEST comment i have seen on this forum- Hats off to you Markinau. A simple and concise solution to the most controversial UBER issue in Australia atm. FFS UBER sort your SH*T out and get drivers back on the road- Add GST to the final fare- include it in the fare summary- AND then drivers will pay the f**ing GST. Lets move on and drive.
I wish it was possible.

But the ATO says it is the drivers who must pay the GST, not Uber. As much as I agree that it would be the best solution for drivers, Uber will never pay GST directly on our behalves to the ATO because the law says share drivers have to do it (for now) and the GST is not applicable to them because they are an overseas based company.

(Heaps of share drivers GST questions answered here: https://www.ato.gov.au/business/gst...cing-and-your-tax-obligations/?page=1#Drivers )

I think the solution will be a rate rise, one that compensates us for the GST and fuel price increases. Whether that is a KM/base rate/minute rate rise (100%GST taxable) or a GENUINE hourly income guarantee that is easily achievable for drivers (Possible benefit: Legally grey area because the ATO has not yet gotten back to drivers about GST on this type of income. So far, the ATO has said the GST applies to fares: well hourly income guarantee is not fares is it?).

Uber might put in place GST invoicing in the app, so that we do not meed to supply invoices ourselves, we should also ask for this.
 
#18 ·
The better idea would be to follow the French taxi drivers approach - close down roads, burn tires, overturn cars and bash the crap out of a taxi drivers car.

There is no point in making a group approach to Uber when there are 5000 drivers lined up at the office ready to sign up as drivers.

Maybe don't go the French approach, but maybe get drivers to pool some money together and park one of those great big mobile advertising vehicles outside the Uber offices with something like "Uber lies to drivers" in bold print all over it?


Fair Work Australia produces this: Independent Contractors The essential handbook where I got the following quote:


"As a "hirer" you are protected from unauthorised industrial action by independent contractors. It is also unlawful for unions to threaten or take unauthorised industrial action against you."
 
#19 ·
It's not about increasing rates. It's about changing the whole way they do things.

Let's get real here. Uber's IT specialists has the knowledge to upgrade the app for Aussie users if they choose to.
There needs to be a couple of changes and fields that should be added.

Divide the payment into 2 portions.
1st is the fare payable to the driver which has the GST.
2nd could be an app fee payable to Uber B.V.

Let's look at a scenario here.
Rider get's a lift and it costs them ummm let's say $118

Now we break the $118 down.
$80 was the fare to the driver.
$8 is the GST component which the driver must include in their BASE.
$20 is the Uber app fee which is not part of the fare and payable directly to Uber.
$10 is for tolls which is GST inclusive and paid by rider to the driver.

Surely this is the way to go and a great step forward for Uber to co-operate with the ATO.

BUT it has a flaw!!!

This would mean that Uber would need to ensure all their drivers have an ABN and be GST registerded.

This would probably mean Uber would need to take 5 steps backward before they can move forward.
Your thoughts.
 
#20 · (Edited)
It's not about increasing rates. It's about changing the whole way they do things.

Let's get real here. Uber's IT specialists has the knowledge to upgrade the app for Aussie users if they choose to.
There needs to be a couple of changes and fields that should be added.

Divide the payment into 2 portions.
1st is the fare payable to the driver which has the GST.
2nd could be an app fee payable to Uber B.V.

Let's look at a scenario here.
Rider get's a lift and it costs them ummm let's say $118

Now we break the $118 down.
$80 was the fare to the driver.
$8 is the GST component which the driver must include in their BASE.
$20 is the Uber app fee which is not part of the fare and payable directly to Uber.
$10 is for tolls which is GST inclusive and paid by rider to the driver.

Surely this is the way to go and a great step forward for Uber to co-operate with the ATO.

BUT it has a flaw!!!

This would mean that Uber would need to ensure all their drivers have an ABN and be GST registered.

This would probably mean Uber would need to take 5 steps backward before they can move forward.
Your thoughts.
Hi there Ron,

I see what you are saying in your scenario. It's a good solution, except that the ATO wants 10% GST on the Gross fare before any division. While I agree that it would be better if your sum were closer to the case, the ATO would view that they were dipping out on %20 of their GST collection, if you know what I mean. This is because they can't collect the balance of the GST from the Uber cut, because they are GST exempt as an overseas company. Not saying I like it but there it is. The GST ruling is currently being challenged by Uber in the courts so it may not remain the case that we need to worry about GST anyway.

SDA is proposing a new tax on all OS based share ride app providers that will effectively act like a GST but isn't, so that then they can pay 10% tax on their cut and we can pay a simple 10% GST on our share only.

Unfortunately this is the current scenario, as you are probably aware:

To find GST, you must divided the gross figure by 11:
Fee is $108+$10 for tolls
$108/11= $9.82 GST
$108/5 (20%)= $21.60 Uber
You are left with $76.85* to cover all costs except $10 for tolls (should work out full reimbursement but there is some dispute as to whether this is true).

*There are small GST input credtis you can claim back on your other costs (but not on the biggest cost, the Uber cut) plus income tax deductions.
 
#31 ·
This must be the only places on Earth Uber has increased rates.

We know UBER isn't in the business of caring for driver's financial well being. So they MUST have watched the driver App Logon and sign-up statistics for this past week and shit their pants at what they saw.

Extrapolating those stats this week proved to them they were going to lose a lot of money in the future. This has helped define UBER's pain threshold. Any mass action by drivers needs to include not logging on for at least a week in numbers UBER can't simply ignore
 
#24 ·
Ps the fare split in your invoice is nothing to do with gst or the uber fee. It is the fee a rider pays uber when the rider wishes to split the fare with their friend. Uber adds the fee charged to the rider onto the fare and then collects it from you. So if you look at your earning report you ll see +0.60 & -0.60 result in in net 0.00 to you the driver.

Lurking for a while but new here so ciuld hsve misinterpreted your post.

Take care
Uber'Y'
 
#26 ·
Brilliant, they might have read everybody whinging on UP, plus got heaps of emails and tried to deflate any approach before we could go to the media....but we all know 10% is not enough

Fuel in Melb is $1.47.9, up 20%
GST costs us 12.5% extra

We could ask for more
 
#41 ·
#27 · (Edited)
JERKS! they said it would be a 10% increase, but dodgy dodgaroo it's really not!

old rates were $2+$1.10km+35cper min

Rectangle Font Magenta Electric blue Audio equipment


base fare increased slightly more. Minute rate incrased 12.5% But the big one: KM rate is only increased by 5c: that's a measly 4.5% if my maths is accurate

Totally not 10% increase
 
#28 · (Edited)
A true 10% increase would look like this:

2.2 base, 38.5c per minute and $1.21 per KM

they think they can trick us by rewarding short trips: this is where the largest rate increase actually is.

The km rate is where the bulk of our income derives from and guess what?

the KM rate has only risen by 4.5% (corrected)
 
#29 ·
I am curious what were the Melbourne rates before the decrease (presuming it was the same 'Winter promo' that Syd had)? Everyone seems to be comparing the rates last week to this week. What were they before the drop? better or worse than they are today (acknowleding I am not factoring in for lack of increase due to gst ruling). Curious as to whether in Mel rates are reinstated to what they were or less than what they were?

Cheers
Uber'Y'
 
#32 ·
Something is hurting them. I have not been on the road since the GST deadline but have been taping on to check what's happening. Surge has been going on for the majority of the day and the heat maps are covering Melb and outer suburbs. During these times riders are probably choosing not to pay surge at above 2x. The rider app is showing quite a lot of cars on the road but how many are phantoms.
 
#33 ·
Something is hurting them alright, and it was the recent fare decreases and most Aussies not being stupid enough to buy into the 10% fare increase knowing they'd lose it all to the GST issue. If these Einstein's who run Uber in Australia could muster a brain between them, they'd see the long term drivers are leaving, they same guys who helped build Uber to what is is in Australia - but they could care less, until they run out of stock which will happen - Australia is small compared to other markets, we don't have a limitless supply of drivers. Either increase rates, or Uber will be dead and buried in Australia in the next 2 years.
 
#36 ·
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