[senorCRV]

When you do the math

.77 per mile x 75%
- $0.535 mileage rate (gas plus wear on car as factored by fed)
--------
You're earning $.0425 per mile. Before you beat me with "it's just a deduction" I'll submit that the federal government lets you deduct that because they've determined it's how much YOU Spend/Lose to operate your car for a mile. That's not imaginary, gas costs money, oil changes and tires cost money, repairs cost money, and every mile you put on your car reduces its value. If anything, for most people it's actually probably worse.

Now... let's not forget our time is worth $0.12 per minute while on a ride. Well, not really... you're worth 75% of $0.12 per minute, or roughly you're worth a max $5.40 and hour... if you happen to be driving a pax that entire hour.

So to make min wage here in Ohio of $8.15 an hour:

Assuming you're driving a passenger 100% of that hour, 8.15 - 5.40 = $2.75 So at $.0425 a mile you have to drive 64.7 miles, basically 65mph for the entire hour.

So basically you have to pick up your passenger on the on ramp, drive an hour on the highway, and drop them off on the exit ramp..... then you will actually make the minimum wage.

----- Let's take a look at reality -----

Reality is, if you're driving in the real world, pax time during busy times is at best 45 min an hour, probably closer to 30.

To make min wage at realistic pax in car time, you have to drive 96-127mph with pax in car.

Mathematically this doesn't include driving to customers, factoring that makes it much much worse.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

When you do the math

.77 per mile x 75%
- $0.535 mileage rate (gas plus wear on car as factored by fed)

No, that's the IRS Standard Deduction for business mileage (to cover depreciation, interest expense, capital expense, fuel, maintenance, repairs and insurance). While that is the rate you are allowed to deduct from your earnings for each business mile driven, it is not a reflection of your unique, individual costs. It is what the IRS allows, based on national averages. Unless you are driving a new, just financed 16 cylinder luxury sedan or a a Mack truck for Uber/Lyft, the chances are that your actual expenses are considerably less per mile, probably by half.

Mathematically this doesn't include driving to customers, factoring that makes it much much worse.

That is the killer - and you buried the lede!
In general driver's drive about 2 miles to get paid for 1 mile.
So whatever our actual net-earnings per paid mile, our actual earnings are about 1/2 that.

Caveats (and they are big ones for most of us)

Caveat 1: Your earnings figures above are based UberX only - AND based only on non-surge, non-incentive fares
(so your figures apply only if you don't ever do Surge or Incentive rides - which most of us do).
For example, tonight I did eight rides. All of those 8 were UberXL, three were surge fares and 2 others had significant incentives.

Caveat 2: TIPS. Even the worst driver in the worst car gets tips. Obviously, some people get more than others (for a lot of different reasons), but we all get them. You can't talk about earnings without also including the tips you receive. My current rate of cash tips is about 20% of my weekly earnings (pretty consistent over nearly three years).​

Then there's the time invested -
but everyone values their time differently so there's no way to include anything in the formulas we see that works for everyone. (If you're driving TNC instead of sitting on the sofa watching TV your driving time has little value - but if you're driving TNC instead of doing other work, then you hope you're getting more for your time driving than doing that work.)

(and as a note of clarification only, don't forget there are still many of us out here who have been driving TNC long enough to be locked in at the lower Uber fee rate of 20% for UberX)

 

[Teach1]

Senor you can spin the numbers anyway you choose. Accountants do it all the time. If you truly believe what you say why in heavens name would you do this. Go work retail. Home Depot is hiring. I've been driving over two years. 6500 rides. 25-35 hrs/week 2015 40 grand 2016 45 grand 85000 that I would have never seen working retail. I made about 15000 without driving one mile.....passive income. Any business has to be creative to help grow their business. There was a guy in California that made 90000 just recruiting drives. It does take some time and a few $$$ but there is a payback. One projecti did invested 150$ I have gotten back $4500. Great return!!!! Last year before RNC uber had incentive recruit 1-6 new drivers I did get six got Visa card for 2880 plus $900 usual drivers INCENTIVE and drove very little during RNC but made 4100$ that week. So I was happy. I do accept EVERY ride and in the end it does payoff. That short ride puts me in position for longer ride. EX had short ride to tremont from w 25th but my next ride was to Akron!!!! That short ride put me in position for that. And if you can believe this two drivers turned down Akron ride. Even when he offered the divers$100 to take him. The ride was about$35 but then gave me $50 tip!!!! 85 for an hr. I would do that all day long!!!

 

[senorCRV]

For starters, remember I do Uber for what it's designed to be... a hobby.

It's not a taxi job, it's rideshare. If it was a taxi, it would be a taxi.

It's not a job regardless of how much some of you want it to be. However, because it involves payment the government and everyone else involved have no choice but to make you follow the rules the same, much like any other monetized hobby (etsy craft ladies for example)

As for the federal mileage rate... most people are doing exactly what Uber and others take advantage of (like pizza places and sales jobs) and make the mistake of thinking "I'm actually making money on mileage" because all the factors are so small it can't possibly be your car, it's gotta be a truck or someone else's car.... not correct.

I simply don't understand people who think they get ahead by breaking even.

As for your caveats: the exception doesn't disprove the rule. The vast overwhelming majority of Uber drivers are UberX and except for a few cherry pickers, the vast majority of all rides are not surge (which is the whole concept of surge, if it was most of the rides they'd just raise the rates instead)

As for tips: considering the service you dive for actively discourages them and that they are infrequent given the demographic, it's not a situation like wait staff where you can factor them in as a given. Like everyone, I've had good tip nights... I've had nights where I made more in tips than Uber, but for every night like that, there's the night you do 15 rides and get a buck.

Oh and I really really hate that you dropped the predatory tool Uber uses to take advantage of people who don't see Uber for that it is (a hobby that someone else profits from), "you'd just be sitting on your couch" like that is such a waste and worthless use of your time.

I get funny looks whenever I say that, but let's be real... if there was no value to us as humans in sitting in coach and watching TV, explain to me why some of the biggest stores in every town are the ones that sell TVs and Couches. Not too many homes out there without a coach/tv... heck, some people share a kitchen/bathroom but not a coach/Tv room.

Just because you're trading your natural resource (time) for entertainment vs money does not make it any more or less valuable.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

Last year before RNC uber had incentive recruit 1-6 new drivers I did get six got Visa card for 2880 plus $900 usual drivers INCENTIVE and drove very little during RNC but made 4100$ that week.

So - you're the @ass we can blame for so many drivers killing the surge for the rest of us.

Seriously - a couple of us were thinking about doing the pre RNC recruiting thing (it was a 'gift - truly attainable for anyone who applied themselves and committed to the project), but we were just to lazy to get off our asses and just do it... I was wondering if anyone took advantage of the incentive and made it work. So, congratulations to you!

All of that being said...
you are in the extreme minority of drivers who not only drive the way you do, but also work as if you're running a business (uh, because you are running a business). That's not how Uber promotes or markets this gig - they sell it as gig where all you have to do is have a car, insurance a clean record - and can just drive. That is misleading to most drivers.

It's not a job regardless of how much some of you want it to be.

Read Teach1 's post. It IS a job if you make it one. It's a gig if you make it one. It's a hobby of you make it one. Point being - it is what you make it to be. Just because it's not a job to you doesn't mean it's not a job for someone else. For Teach1 , it IS a job - and he works for himself.

I simply don't understand people who think they get ahead by breaking even.

I agree... but that has nothing to do with conflating a tax deduction with an actual expense. The IRS also allows me to make a home-office deduction - that doesn't mean it actually cost me 25% of my house to maintain an office in my home.

As for your caveats: the exception doesn't disprove the rule. The vast overwhelming majority of Uber drivers are UberX and except for a few cherry pickers, the vast majority of all rides are not surge (which is the whole concept of surge, if it was most of the rides they'd just raise the rates instead) As for tips: considering the service you dive for actively discourages them and that they are infrequent given the demographic, it's not a situation like wait staff where you can factor them in as a given. Like everyone, I've had good tip nights... I've had nights where I made more in tips than Uber, but for every night like that, there's the night you do 15 rides and get a buck.

It absolutely disproves your earnings analysis. If only 'some' drivers earned tips then I would agree it's not worth considering - but it's a fact that over time, over lots of rides, drivers DO average some % of their weekly earnings in cash tips (Uber/Lyft) and In-App tips (Lyft). It is disingenuous to consider all expenses and then not consider all revenues (as Teach1 said), including tips, incentives, surges, bonuses and referral spiffs. They are all part of 'the business' and are revenues that are directly and exclusively attributable to TNC business activity.

except for a few cherry pickers, the vast majority of all rides are not surge

Now that would depend on when and where you choose to drive (or when and where you have the ability to drive). I do not cherry-pick rides - my acceptance rate is very high... but I do carefully select the when and where I have the app online. That's not cherry-picking - that's just managing my efforts for the highest return per mile & per hour that I can.

Oh and I really really hate that you dropped the predatory tool Uber uses to take advantage of people who don't see Uber for that it is (a hobby that someone else profits from), "you'd just be sitting on your couch" like that is such a waste and worthless use of your time.

I'm 59 years old - and that is exactly what I was doing most nights from 10P-1A before I started driving... that, and keeping an eye on job orders that come in for my 'day' job via email. Now I still do my regular light work in the eves, but I do it from the driver's seat of my car. My circumstance is not unique - and neither is the even more common scenario where someone must have complete flexibility in choosing when they work due to their own personal circumstances.

Just because you're trading your natural resource (time) for entertainment vs money does not make it any more or less valuable.

Now you're in 'nutso' territory. Of course it does. That's an individual choice and the value is in the eye of the beholder - not your assessment of it.

 

[ChrisJ]

I'm curious what Cleveland area drivers are averaging total vs revenue miles, Michael quoted :In general driver's drive about 2 miles to get paid for 1 mile. Also what are drivers averaging gross ( after all uber fee's) revenue per payed mile? & and per total mile?

 

[Uber8er]

Senor you can spin the numbers anyway you choose. Accountants do it all the time. If you truly believe what you say why in heavens name would you do this. Go work retail. Home Depot is hiring. I've been driving over two years. 6500 rides. 25-35 hrs/week 2015 40 grand 2016 45 grand 85000 that I would have never seen working retail. I made about 15000 without driving one mile.....passive income. Any business has to be creative to help grow their business. There was a guy in California that made 90000 just recruiting drives. It does take some time and a few $$$ but there is a payback. One projecti did invested 150$ I have gotten back $4500. Great return!!!! Last year before RNC uber had incentive recruit 1-6 new drivers I did get six got Visa card for 2880 plus $900 usual drivers INCENTIVE and drove very little during RNC but made 4100$ that week. So I was happy. I do accept EVERY ride and in the end it does payoff. That short ride puts me in position for longer ride. EX had short ride to tremont from w 25th but my next ride was to Akron!!!! That short ride put me in position for that. And if you can believe this two drivers turned down Akron ride. Even when he offered the divers$100 to take him. The ride was about$35 but then gave me $50 tip!!!! 85 for an hr. I would do that all day long!!!

Here you go putting out wrong information again. There is no way unless you are getting surge riders 2x to 3x all the time that you are making $25 to $30 per hour. Both you and Micheal need to stop lying.
One day I decided to drive on current rates (never again) with only two rides that surge about 1.5 to 2x highest surge, worked 9 hours made $102 driving 105 miles with one guy tipping me $5. This is actually driving constantly with not many dead miles.
Michael there is no way that IRS standard deduction is not true. Remember used cars have close to the same amount of maintenance/depreciation cost as new cars, one depreciates substantially the other lots of maintenance cost.
Driving at current prices you aren't making minimum wage.
So Teach1 and Michael - Cleveland before you try and convince us of how great uber is you might want to take a basic math class.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

... worked 9 hours made $102 driving 105 miles with one guy tipping me $5. This is actually driving constantly with not many dead miles.

LOL! If you worked 9 hours and drove 'constantly with not many dead miles' for a total of 105 miles - then you averaged 11.5 mph. Talk about "LYING"! It's is you my friend that needs the math lesson.

It is also absurd to draw a general conclusion about all drivers everywhere (or even in one city) based on a single anecdote from your own experience. The only thing we can conclude from your experience is that you could use some help in learning how to drive TNC.

...there is no way that IRS standard deduction is not true.

No one said the std deduction isn't 'true' - it's IS the std deduction. But it has no real-world connection to any individuals driver's 'actual' expenses - which vary wildly from car/driver to car/driver. This has been discussed and explained here on UberPeople many times. If the std deduction were an accurate reflection of all drivers actual costs of driving, the IRS would not have any reason for allowing tax payers the choice of using the std deduction or actual expenses to determine their deduction for business use of a vehicle. (duh)

So @Teach1 and @Michael - Cleveland before you try and convince us of how great uber is you might want to take a basic math class.

Teach1 and I have, combined, done more than 7,000 rides over the last 3 years - covering UberX/Lyft, UberXL/Lyft Plus and Uber SELECT. Feel free to disagree with our opinions, but you look foolish questioning our numbers or saying that either of us is trying to convince anyone that of how 'great' Uber is. Uber is an evil enterprise and TK should burn in hell for eternity for what he is doing to people.

For my my part, read my posts and you'll find very few people more critical of Uber or more wary of driver's ability to make a profit. That being said, some of us drive TNC and do manage to come out ahead. Don't blame me - or Teach1 - if you are not one of them.

It is not all about surge. For me, it's about driving at the right times in the right places (as I do, part-time).
In Teach1 's case, it's about looking at the total opportunity and working all of it - not just driving. He's not the only one I know who generates around 1/3 of his TNC revenue from referrals.

I'm curious what Cleveland area drivers are averaging total vs revenue miles, Michael quoted :In general driver's drive about 2 miles to get paid for 1 mile. Also what are drivers averaging gross ( after all uber fee's) revenue per payed mile? & and per total mile?

Drivers are a very diverse group of people

• Full-time or part-time?
• Grandfathered in at the lower TNC fees or paying 25% on all X/Lyft rides?
• UberX/Lyft? UberXL/LyftPlus? UberSELECT?
• When do you drive?
• Where do you drive?
• Vehicle paid for and owned or financed/leased?

Different groups of drivers based on just the info above are going to have different average gross earnings results. And there are drivers who purposefully drive only 'the airport' and return to the airport after each ride, accumulating a much higher 'dead-mile' average than drivers who 'just drive' wherever they end up.

This is one of the problems that the attorney's have arguing a class-action before a court. Every time they cite an example to illustrate a point, Uber/Lyft can point to another example of a similar circumstance where the point made is the opposite.

Bottom line: in this case, 'averages' are just numbers. Everyone's numbers are different and no one pays 'average' expenses or deposits the 'average' earnings in the bank each week - they deposit their actual earnings (and pay their actual expenses). And that's why I took issue with the OP's post in this thread which attempted to reduce everyone to some fictitious 'average'

The Std Deduction Myth -
and why the IRS Std deduction is such a bargain for TNC drivers

The IRS allows a tax deduction from income for 2017 of $0.535/mile driven for business purposes. Some people confuse that number with their actual expenses and their individual actual cost of driving a car for TNC. The fact is that nothing could be further from the reality. And her's why:

The IRS Std Deduction is based on driving 15,000 miles per year
- and it tracks very closely to AAA's own annual estimate of costs to drive a vehicle 15,000 miles/yr.

The expense items included in both the IRS Std Deduction and the AAA estimate include:

• Fuel: $1,260/yr
• Insurance: $1,222/yr
• Depreciation: $3,759/yr
• Maintenance: $792/yr
• License/Registration/Taxes: $687/yr
• Finance Charges: $683/yr
• Tires: $150/yr

That totals $8,553/year: $0.57/mi

But what's a more accurate estimate for a TNC driver -
who drives 52,000 miles/yr for business use of their personal vehicle?

• Fuel: $4,368/yr
• Insurance: $0/yr
  
• Depreciation: $1,000/yr
• Maintenance: $500/yr
• License/Registration/Taxes: $0/yr
• Finance Charges: $0/yr
• Tires: $300/yr

That totals $6,168/year: $0.12/mi

The dramatic difference in cost per mile is because of two things overlooked completely by people who think their actual cost per mile to drive their personal vehicle for TNC is in any way related to the IRS Std mileage deduction:

1. TNC drivers drive far more miles per year than the number of miles used to calculate the Std Deduction.

2. Certain costs are already accounted for when you operate your personal vehicle for business use.
You don't pay any more per year - or per mile - for those expenses just because you drive more miles (for rideshare).
It doesn't cost you any more in finance charges or license/registration/tax to drive an additional 52,000/mi and your insurance costs also remain the same (or close) - but are spread over many more miles driven. (plug in your own numbers to get an idea of your own expenses per mile for driving TNC/rideshare.)​

So, ChrisJ , to draw that out to its logical mathematical conclusion, an 'average' TNC driver driving 1,000 mi/wk (~200 mi/day 5 days/wk) is spending around $120/wk and generating earnings of maybe around $0.27/mi after fees and dead miles - and netting maybe around $0.17/mi (after fees, dead miles and expenses - and before tips).
But remember - that's 'average' and everyone's actual net earnings are going to be different. Some, VERY different. And those drivers who can use the IRS Std mileage Deduction to reduce their taxes on income from other sources are faring much better on an annual basis than those who don't have taxable income form other sources.

source: AAA

 

[ChrisJ]

Thanks Michael, appreciate the detailed breakdown, but to put more simple just wanted to know what ( for lack of better description) " deposited money" divided by trip miles was for different drivers. Also trip miles divided by total miles I averaged (deposited) $1.44 per trip mile, but am over 2 to 1 ratio in revenue miles vs total miles, just curious how average that was. fwiw part time, X only at newer 25%, I quit driving before and did NO driving during RNC or Cavs champion ship. While it was an interesting experience and the flexibility was attractive, at such a low base rate and for what effort I was willing to put into it, for me, monetarily it simply wasn't worth my time. But as you point out everyone comes at it with different parameters and objectives, to each his own.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

FWIW:
When I drive just 20-25 hours/wk (10-12 weekend nights + 10 on weeknights on weekdays) my deposited earnings are around $300 and I avg around $60 in tips. When I drive 40-60 hours/wk (averaging 6-7 hours/day - all night time driving) my earnings are around $650/wk and $150/tips. ymmv

 

[BradSussmanInsurance]

But what's a more accurate estimate for a TNC driver -
who drives 52,000 miles/yr for business use of their personal vehicle?

• Fuel: $4,368/yr
• Insurance: $0/yr
  
• Depreciation: $1,000/yr
• Maintenance: $500/yr

You about gave me a stroke! While Brad Sussman Insurance, ltd. has low rates... they're not that low!
If you want to see if you're paying too much for Rideshare coverage, give me a call. (Erie sponsorship ended). If you want to lower expenses, here's a good way to start. Besides, it's a free, no-obligation quote!

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

You about gave me a stroke! While Brad Sussman Insurance, ltd. has low rates... they're not that low!
If you want to see if you're paying too much for Rideshare coverage, give me a call. (Erie sponsorship ended). If you want to lower expenses, here's a good way to start. Besides, it's a free, no-obligation quote!

There is no additional cost to Personal Insurance to drive ride share. Unless you're smart and ADD Rideshare coverage which will usually add anywhere from 10 to $30 a month as an expense directly attributable to rideshare.

 

[BradSussmanInsurance]

Unless you're smart and AD Rideshare coverage which will usually add anywhere from 10 to $30 a month as an expense directly attributable to rideshare.

I see what you did there... Thank you!

 

[Teach1]

Senor I generate only about 20/hr driving. The other things I do generate about 15/hr. I do things at home about 10-15 hrs per week. When UberEATS first came out and they were paying $10. I made up my own coupons modeled after the uber coupon. Cost me about $50.00. 2hrs of my time 20$ in card stock paper. I have had 130 turned in1300/2 hrs then another 150 @5$ 750 so 2050. I did spend another 4 hrs distributing to hotels downtown. They actually were glad it gave their guests other food options. So 2050/6 hrs=340 /hr. They have been turned in over the past few months but I didn't have to do ANYTHING after I spent 6hrs of my time. It was actually eye opening going into these different hotels we pick people up at. I have other projects I'm developing but will take more time but with the payoff much bigger if things go as I think they will. If you can be a little creative and have the time. I have spent time creating a power point for this project probably 40 hrs creating editing refining. BTW Michael between us more like 10000 rides I have close to 6500 with 3900 5star rides. Only about 1/3 of riders actually do the rating thing.

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

BTW Michael between us more like 10000 rides I have close to 6500 with 3900 5star rides. Only about 1/3 of riders actually do the rating thing.

Teach1 , that's really incredible... I thought my ~4,000 rides was a lot (~2,800 5 stars). I don't know how you do so many rides and do all the marketing stuff (that I am soooo over with). Then again, I work full-time at my 'real' work and only drive part-time (and as much for relaxation and distraction as for the money). Why aren't you part of our Zello group?

 

[Teach1]

I am retired which obviously gives me the time. I was out today for an hr doing marketing things. This all takes a lot of time no doubt. As far as rides go I usually go out 5-8 AM but if busy stay with it. Then 6-9PM again if busy again stay with it but no later than 1030. I try to keep this schedule but not all the time. I very rarely work sundays. I start right from home and then wherever the wind blows. Last week 80 drives but did about 6 hrs extra. Normal 5-65 rides per week. I do look at last two weeks rides and see how busy the times and where they were from and to. I love when I get pulled over to east side in the morning. Very busy over there at that time. I know this sounds a little obsessive but any business looks where sales come from. I don't worry about surges. They will come. Airport very unproductive . Last night while at airport got a call to Brooklyn to broadview hts I don't wait more than 15 mins my rating is 4.9 trying to get to 4.95 but can't keep everyone happy. So this basically how I work. Zello???

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

Zello is an app that lets you use your smart phone as a cross between a walkie-talkie and a CB radio.
Download the Zello app from the play store or iTunes store.

You can create or join a 'channel' and then be in real-time voice contact with other people (in our case, other NE Ohio drivers).
It's not only incredibly useful for knowing what going on - (like how many cars are really in the airport lot - or what's happening at the end of a Cavs game) - but it changes driving from being an isolating experience to being social. You use it when you want - turn it off when you don't want it... and by going into 'busy' mode, you can even review the 'history' to hear what you missed.

Both of the groups I participate in are 'closed' groups - you have to request 'trusted' status to be able to hear and talk to anyone other than the moderators and admins. "Uber Cle Group" is the general discussion group that you should start with. Many of the mods/admins there (including me) also participate here on UberPeople.net - so you'll know many of the folks.

The second group is more of a strategic group - made up of highly experienced drivers who share info that may be of use from a competitive perspective - so we limit access only to those who participate fully and are willing to share info.

 

[senorCRV]

LOL! If you worked 9 hours and drove 'constantly with not many dead miles' for a total of 105 miles - then you averaged 11.5 mph. Talk about "LYING"! It's is you my friend that needs the math lesson.

It is also absurd to draw a general conclusion about all drivers everywhere (or even in one city) based on a single anecdote from your own experience. The only thing we can conclude from your experience is that you could use some help in learning how to drive TNC.

No one said the std deduction't true - it's IS the std deduction. But it has no real-world connection to any individuals driver's 'actual' expenses - which vary wildly from car/driver to car/driver. This has been discussed and explained here on UberPeople many times. If the std deduction were an accurate reflection of all drivers actual costs of driving, the IRS would not have any reason for allowing tax payers the choice of using the std deduction or actual expenses to determine their deduction for business use of a vehicle. (duh)

Teach1 and I have, combined, done more than 7,000 rides over the last 3 years - covering UberX/Lyft, UberXL/Lyft Plus and Uber SELECT. Feel free to disagree with our opinions, but you look foolish questioning our numbers or saying that either of us is trying to convince anyone that of how 'great' Uber is. Uber is an evil enterprise and TK should burn in hell for eternity for what he is doing to people.

For my my part, read my posts and you'll find very few people more critical of Uber or more wary of driver's ability to make a profit. That being said, some of us drive TNC and do manage to come out ahead. Don't blame me - or Teach1 - if you are not one of them.

It is not all about surge. For me, it's about driving at the right times in the right places (as I do, part-time).
In Teach1 's case, it's about looking at the total opportunity and working all of it - not just driving. He's not the only one I know who generates around 1/3 of his TNC revenue from referrals.

Drivers are a very diverse group of people

• Full-time or part-time?
• Grandfathered in at the lower TNC fees or paying 25% on all X/Lyft rides?
• UberX/Lyft? UberXL/LyftPlus? UberSELECT?
• When do you drive?
• Where do you drive?
• Vehicle paid for and owned or financed/leased?

Different groups of drivers based on just the info above are going to have different average gross earnings results. And there are drivers who purposefully drive only 'the airport' and return to the airport after each ride, accumulating a much higher 'dead-mile' average than drivers who 'just drive' wherever they end up.

This is one of the problems that the attorney's have arguing a class-action before a court. Every time they cite an example to illustrate a point, Uber/Lyft can point to another example of a similar circumstance where the point made is the opposite.

Bottom line: in this case, 'averages' are just numbers. Everyone's numbers are different and no one pays 'average' expenses or deposits the 'average' earnings in the bank each week - they deposit their actual earnings (and pay their actual expenses). And that's why I took issue with the OP's post in this thread which attempted to reduce everyone to some fictitious 'average'

The Std Deduction Myth -
and why the IRS Std deduction is such a bargain for TNC drivers

The IRS allows a tax deduction from income for 2017 of $0.535/mile driven for business purposes. Some people confuse that number with their actual expenses and their individual actual cost of driving a car for TNC. The fact is that nothing could be further from the reality. And her's why:

The IRS Std Deduction is based on driving 15,000 miles per year
- and it tracks very closely to AAA's own annual estimate of costs to drive a vehicle 15,000 miles/yr.

The expense items included in both the IRS Std Deduction and the AAA estimate include:

• Fuel: $1,260/yr
• Insurance: $1,222/yr
• Depreciation: $3,759/yr
• Maintenance: $792/yr
• License/Registration/Taxes: $687/yr
• Finance Charges: $683/yr
• Tires: $150/yr

That totals $8,553/year: $0.57/mi

But what's a more accurate estimate for a TNC driver -
who drives 52,000 miles/yr for business use of their personal vehicle?

• Fuel: $4,368/yr
• Insurance: $0/yr
  
• Depreciation: $1,000/yr
• Maintenance: $500/yr
• License/Registration/Taxes: $0/yr
• Finance Charges: $0/yr
• Tires: $300/yr

That totals $6,168/year: $0.12/mi

The dramatic difference in cost per mile is because of two things overlooked completely by people who think their actual cost per mile to drive their personal vehicle for TNC is in any way related to the IRS Std mileage deduction:

1. TNC drivers drive far more miles per year than the number of miles used to calculate the Std Deduction.

2. Certain costs are already accounted for when you operate your personal vehicle for business use.
You don't pay any more per year - or per mile - for those expenses just because you drive more miles (for rideshare).
It doesn't cost you any more in finance charges or license/registration/tax to drive an additional 52,000/mi and your insurance costs also remain the same (or close) - but are spread over many more miles driven. (plug in your own numbers to get an idea of your own expenses per mile for driving TNC/rideshare.)​

So, ChrisJ , to draw that out to its logical mathematical conclusion, an 'average' TNC driver driving 1,000 mi/wk (~200 mi/day 5 days/wk) is spending around $120/wk and generating earnings of maybe around $0.27/mi after fees and dead miles - and netting maybe around $0.17/mi (after fees, dead miles and expenses - and before tips).
But remember - that's 'average' and everyone's actual net earnings are going to be different. Some, VERY different. And those drivers who can use the IRS Std mileage Deduction to reduce their taxes on income from other sources are faring much better on an annual basis than those who don't have taxable income form other sources.

source: AAA

Does Uber pay you to swallow or do you throw that in for free?

Zello is an app that lets you use your smart phone as a cross between a walkie-talkie and a CB radio.
Download the Zello app from the play store or iTunes store.

You can create or join a 'channel' and then be in real-time voice contact with other people (in our case, other NE Ohio drivers).
It's not only incredibly useful for knowing what going on - (like how many cars are really in the airport lot - or what's happening at the end of a Cavs game) - but it changes driving from being an isolating experience to being social. You use it when you want - turn it off when you don't want it... and by going into 'busy' mode, you can even review the 'history' to hear what you missed.

Both of the groups I participate in are 'closed' groups - you have to request 'trusted' status to be able to hear and talk to anyone other than the moderators and admins. "Uber Cle Group" is the general discussion group that you should start with. Many of the mods/admins there (including me) also participate here on UberPeople.net - so you'll know many of the folks.

The second group is more of a strategic group - made up of highly experienced drivers who share info that may be of use from a competitive perspective - so we limit access only to those who participate fully and are willing to share info.

Lol, I got banned from the Uber Cle group for "general discussion.

It's a bunch of pervs trying to hit on college girls. That's all. Within 5 minutes any college aged girl that comes on there is being talked up to "meeting the Uber community" at some restaurant these pervs hang out at.

It was the creepiest thing I've ever seen, just north of "pee wee's big adventure"

 

[Michael - Cleveland]

Yes Michael you are more like a veteran idiot. I've driven long enough to know that with ubers current prices you make nothing less than below minimum wage. And no I'm not blaming you for not making money with uber couldn't care less I've got a better job and make much more than your bïtch @ss makes on uber driving pukies around. So you keep telling yourself you make $30 per hour you aren't lying to me you are lying to yourself.

Another genius heard from who knows what others are earning and how. Brilliant!

Does Uber pay you to swallow or do you throw that in for free?

You obviously have not read many of my posts here.

Lol, I got banned from the Uber Cle group for "general discussion.

Uh, no - You got bounced and blocked from the Uber CLE Group because a vote of (SEVEN) moderators agreed you are were arrogant, disruptive, and refused to follow the group's rules. Blame it on me or others as you wish, but you and everyone else knows the truth.

It's a bunch of pervs trying to hit on college girls. That's all. Within 5 minutes any college aged girl that comes on there is being talked up to "meeting the Uber community" at some restaurant these pervs hang out at. It was the creepiest thing I've ever seen, just north of "pee wee's big adventure"

Yeah, right. Dream on.

BTW... I'm a moderator here, too. Keep up the personal attacks and let's see how long you last here.

 

[senorCRV]

Another genius heard from who knows what others are earning and how. Brilliant!

You obviously have not read many of my posts here. Uh, no - You got bounced and blocked from the Uber CLE Group because a vote of (SEVEN) moderators agreed you are were arrogant, disruptive, and refused to follow the groups rules. Blame it on me or others as you wish, but you and everyone else knows the truth.Yeah, right. Dream on.

BTW... I'm a moderator here, too. Keep up the personal attacks and let's see how long you last here.

Lol, that there are seven moderators having a discussion like this make it even more creepy. You literally banned me because a college girl asked about the Akron Canton airport not having a queue and I told her how it works, meanwhile you were trying to convince her to come to some diner in Cleveland to meet with you to get the answer.

You guys are creepy as hell.

You guys are pathetic and I'm ashamed to have anything in common with you, including breathing air