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I’m new to Denver but have been driving X/Lyft for 5 years in the Phoenix area. Big learning curve so far but I’m averaging about $28-$35 an hour during the day on weekdays. Haven’t done a weekend yet. I’m in Aurora so the biggest challenge so far has been figuring out the good spots to be in. Love it out here so far though.
 

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As you just pointed out, promo's and tips are included in your numbers, and without it, you wouldn't drive. Those are not guaranteed earnings, so basically your numbers are probably 20% lower, so why do it?

I cant speak for RHDriver but I would say there are no guarantees in this life. I cant guarantee anyone will ever call for a ride again. But I will still have the app on at 3:30 tomorrow morning and chances are, Ill get an airport ride by 4:00. Chances are also good that Ill get a couple of decent tips tomorrow too.. Im counting on it.. Its not just wishfull thinking, I have a 4 year track record of ever increasing income per mile, and tips and promotions are part of it

If shouldn't count on the good stuff like tips, happening, maybe I shouldnt count on any bad stuff happening, either, but I do. I budget for flat tires, touch up paint, extra car washes, etc.


How much do you set aside for depreciation, future repairs and replacement, all factor in. Also, most sources say the IRS number is low.
no one with a 10 year old car with 330000 miles would say the standard milage deduction is low. The IRS deduction includes 26 cents per mile for depreciation And you get to claim this deduction even after the car is fully depreciated. I bought my car when it was 4 years old with 50000 miles, for $25000 I drove it for 2 years and put 20000 more miles (personal miles) on it. I then put the car into ride share. At that time I estimated the value of the car to be $18000

So in 4 years I drove 260000 miles. So if I retired the car today, my depreciation expense would be 7 cents a mile. If i drive another 2 years (part time) and put another 80000 miles on the car, my depreciation expense drops to 5.6 cents per mile. and if I drive it until it ages out of Uber Ill add yet another 120000 miles. That will drop my depreciation expense to 4 cents a mile

My actual expenses have been 5 cents a mile for maintenance and repairs, 15 cents a mile for gas, 4 cents for insurance.. I havent worried about money for a new car. When it dies or ages out Im not going to replace it. with a car for Uber, But I do have money in the bank I could use if I wanted to

You include both "depreciation" and "replacement" in your list of expenses. You cant do both, Depreciation is something that affects your taxes, not your cashflow, so you dont set any money aside for depreciation. It makes sense to set money aside for vehicle replacement, but that money is not an expense until you actually spend it. and typically, you wouldnt expense it all in the first year, You would depreciate it over time

Many businesses have a metric they they use when talking about earnings. EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization. I think it makes sense to use EBITDA when talking about rideshare earnings too
 

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And all your comments are why things need to change, why this industry needs better regulated, in terms of pay, vehicles, vehicle age, minimum insurance coverage, etc. A 10 yr old car with 330k + miles has no business doing RS, and if it is, it should be inspected every 6 mos., and not by "owner", not by Uber/Lyft, but by a real shop. Cabs and limo's are age and mileage restricted, needs to happen for RS. I've had rides in some of these high mileage hoopties, that on the outside look decent, but once you get in, you realize how bad they are.

RS insurance coverages should be a minimum of 100/300/100 and full-coverage as well (Uber/Lyft coverages need to be mandated higher as well, both carry 25/50/15 and their umbrella, not enough), to protect the driver, the rider, and all parties involved. There are 4 active RS related accident cases in recent months here in Denver that have not made the news, where RS drivers have screwed the pooch, were at fault for a serious accident, and don't even begin to have enough insurance to protect themselves or the other parties. The reality is right now, any crash involving an at fault RS driver, trial lawyers are not even bothering with negotiations, they simple file a lawsuit, as they are finding out drivers are grossly under-insured. Going through my accident and lawsuit over the last couple years, and talking to all the lawyers involved, it's simply a matter of time before the insurance companies start making serious mandatory changes to RS coverages to protect themselves, drivers, victims, and the bottom line.

Depreciation does effect your cash flow, if the IRS decides to start auditing you, they are going to look at every number, if you've maxed depreciation per the IRS, yes, you can still claim it, until the IRS decides you can't, and from exp., IRS auditors interpret the book they way they feel like it, if the book says A is green and B is red, the auditor can say, no no no, B is green and A is red, and disallow anything they want. It becomes up to you to prove them wrong, and if you don't understand why they are wrong, and able to prove them wrong either in the appeal or before the tax court judge, well, that depreciation money may be paying your past due taxes.
 

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I cant speak for RHDriver but I would say there are no guarantees in this life. I cant guarantee anyone will ever call for a ride again. But I will still have the app on at 3:30 tomorrow morning and chances are, Ill get an airport ride by 4:00. Chances are also good that Ill get a couple of decent tips tomorrow too.. Im counting on it.. Its not just wishfull thinking, I have a 4 year track record of ever increasing income per mile, and tips and promotions are part of it

If shouldn't count on the good stuff like tips, happening, maybe I shouldnt count on any bad stuff happening, either, but I do. I budget for flat tires, touch up paint, extra car washes, etc.




no one with a 10 year old car with 330000 miles would say the standard milage deduction is low. The IRS deduction includes 26 cents per mile for depreciation And you get to claim this deduction even after the car is fully depreciated. I bought my car when it was 4 years old with 50000 miles, for $25000 I drove it for 2 years and put 20000 more miles (personal miles) on it. I then put the car into ride share. At that time I estimated the value of the car to be $18000

So in 4 years I drove 260000 miles. So if I retired the car today, my depreciation expense would be 7 cents a mile. If i drive another 2 years (part time) and put another 80000 miles on the car, my depreciation expense drops to 5.6 cents per mile. and if I drive it until it ages out of Uber Ill add yet another 120000 miles. That will drop my depreciation expense to 4 cents a mile

My actual expenses have been 5 cents a mile for maintenance and repairs, 15 cents a mile for gas, 4 cents for insurance.. I havent worried about money for a new car. When it dies or ages out Im not going to replace it. with a car for Uber, But I do have money in the bank I could use if I wanted to

You include both "depreciation" and "replacement" in your list of expenses. You cant do both, Depreciation is something that affects your taxes, not your cashflow, so you dont set any money aside for depreciation. It makes sense to set money aside for vehicle replacement, but that money is not an expense until you actually spend it. and typically, you wouldnt expense it all in the first year, You would depreciate it over time

Many businesses have a metric they they use when talking about earnings. EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization. I think it makes sense to use EBITDA when talking about rideshare earnings too
I’m not sure a vehicle with over 500k miles on RS is a good idea. But I’m all for maximizing profit lol
 

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And all your comments are why things need to change, why this industry needs better regulated, in terms of pay, vehicles, vehicle age, minimum insurance coverage, etc. A 10 yr old car with 330k + miles has no business doing RS, and if it is, it should be inspected every 6 mos., and not by "owner", not by Uber/Lyft, but by a real shop. Cabs and limo's are age and mileage restricted, needs to happen for RS. I've had rides in some of these high mileage hoopties, that on the outside look decent, but once you get in, you realize how bad they are.

RS insurance coverages should be a minimum of 100/300/100 and full-coverage as well (Uber/Lyft coverages need to be mandated higher as well, both carry 25/50/15 and their umbrella, not enough), to protect the driver, the rider, and all parties involved. There are 4 active RS related accident cases in recent months here in Denver that have not made the news, where RS drivers have screwed the pooch, were at fault for a serious accident, and don't even begin to have enough insurance to protect themselves or the other parties. The reality is right now, any crash involving an at fault RS driver, trial lawyers are not even bothering with negotiations, they simple file a lawsuit, as they are finding out drivers are grossly under-insured. Going through my accident and lawsuit over the last couple years, and talking to all the lawyers involved, it's simply a matter of time before the insurance companies start making serious mandatory changes to RS coverages to protect themselves, drivers, victims, and the bottom line.

Depreciation does effect your cash flow, if the IRS decides to start auditing you, they are going to look at every number, if you've maxed depreciation per the IRS, yes, you can still claim it, until the IRS decides you can't, and from exp., IRS auditors interpret the book they way they feel like it, if the book says A is green and B is red, the auditor can say, no no no, B is green and A is red, and disallow anything they want. It becomes up to you to prove them wrong, and if you don't understand why they are wrong, and able to prove them wrong either in the appeal or before the tax court judge, well, that depreciation money may be paying your past due taxes.
a couple of things.

Regarding insurance: I have commercial insurance with the coverage you suggest.
I have the local "vehicle for hire permit" and a inspection by a "real" shop is required on a regular basis, (not every 6 months)
My car is a Florida car, meaning no snow, no ice, and no salt = no rust
When the subject of cars comes up with a passenger, they are routinely surprised to hear the mileage, The car looks good, inside and out. no rips in the carpet, no worn carpets, and it gets a cleaning every other day, inside and out
Ive been driving nearly 60 years and have not had an at fault accident,

Depreciation is not a cash expense, While it is certainly a thing at tax time, because the IRS is so generous with the standard mileage deduction, It actually can contribute to a positive cash flow. If you use the standard deduction, depreciation is the same for a new $40000 car as it is for a $20000 used car, or even a "hooptie" like mine

By the way, Ive had several of my tax returns looked at by the IRS, One full audit and several questions about specific entries on my returns. I even had one 8 year period when I didnt file at all.. In every instance I found the IRS people to be helpful and fair

Im also high mileage, (75 years old) if anything should be retired, its me, not the car, but Im inspected every year and so far in decent shape too

And one more thing, I had a New York resident in my car who was talking about taxi service in Manhattan. Her point was that Uber cars tended to be much cleaner, nicer and better maintained than the over regulated taxis
 

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I’m not sure a vehicle with over 500k miles on RS is a good idea. But I’m all for maximizing profit lol
.
Im not expecting to be driving enough to get to 500000 miles, but I think the car would make it even if I dont. I used that number to make a point about depreciation. Even now, at just 300000 miles the car is fully depreciated, Its not worth anything but salvage value.. and yet I can still take the standard mileage deduction at tax time, which includes 27 cents a mile depreciation
 

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And all your comments are why things need to change, why this industry needs better regulated, in terms of pay, vehicles, vehicle age, minimum insurance coverage, etc. A 10 yr old car with 330k + miles has no business doing RS, and if it is, it should be inspected every 6 mos., and not by "owner", not by Uber/Lyft, but by a real shop. Cabs and limo's are age and mileage restricted, needs to happen for RS. I've had rides in some of these high mileage hoopties, that on the outside look decent, but once you get in, you realize how bad they are.

RS insurance coverages should be a minimum of 100/300/100 and full-coverage as well (Uber/Lyft coverages need to be mandated higher as well, both carry 25/50/15 and their umbrella, not enough), to protect the driver, the rider, and all parties involved. There are 4 active RS related accident cases in recent months here in Denver that have not made the news, where RS drivers have screwed the pooch, were at fault for a serious accident, and don't even begin to have enough insurance to protect themselves or the other parties. The reality is right now, any crash involving an at fault RS driver, trial lawyers are not even bothering with negotiations, they simple file a lawsuit, as they are finding out drivers are grossly under-insured. Going through my accident and lawsuit over the last couple years, and talking to all the lawyers involved, it's simply a matter of time before the insurance companies start making serious mandatory changes to RS coverages to protect themselves, drivers, victims, and the bottom line.

Depreciation does effect your cash flow, if the IRS decides to start auditing you, they are going to look at every number, if you've maxed depreciation per the IRS, yes, you can still claim it, until the IRS decides you can't, and from exp., IRS auditors interpret the book they way they feel like it, if the book says A is green and B is red, the auditor can say, no no no, B is green and A is red, and disallow anything they want. It becomes up to you to prove them wrong, and if you don't understand why they are wrong, and able to prove them wrong either in the appeal or before the tax court judge, well, that depreciation money may be paying your past due taxes.

I had another thought on this, actually two thoughts

1) the title of this thread is " How to daytime drivers make any money.?" I think I answered that. or at least gave one way that a person could make money, ie by driving a fully depreciated car. The question wasnt how do daytime drivers get rich, or even how do daytime drivers make a living. We dont, or at least I dont. I make enough to supplement my retirement income so that I dont have to spend, my savings yet, and I dont have to move into my daughters garage

You have changed the subject to "Is it safe for an old driver to be driving an old car for Uber" or as you put it "Im whats wrong with the Uber business model". You may be right but thats not the question. Or maybe your comment is the answer to the question posed by the OP. Maybe the answer is "We make money by exploiting the lack of reasonable regulation that others in our industry are subject to"

But understand, Im not trying to change the world, or change Uber. I take the world (and Uber) as I find it and and try to make the best of what I see.

2) I started this thing 4 years ago with an investment of my time and and my car and a $15000 bank account. Ive been taking out $2500 every month, I still have the same car (worth less of course) and I bought another car and Ive paid off my wife's car and that savings account is up to $125000
 
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