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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This post is for
  • People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
This post is not for
  • People who think that the IRS deduction ($.535/mile) equals the cost of operating a personal vehicle for rideshare, irrespective of what that vehicle is (e.g. 2009 Elantra = $.535, 2017 Panamera = $.535, etc.)
  • People who think their only cost to drive a vehicle for rideshare is gas because they "own it anyway"
To calculate the total cost per mile for your vehicle, sum the following items.

Gas
Cost per gallon in your city divided by your MPG

Maintenance
Tires - cost of new set of tires installed divided by miles you expect out of a set
Oil - cost oil change divided by miles per oil change
Brakes - cost of brake set divided by miles per change
Other - Above is typical; you may have additional items, such as coolant, required at scheduled intervals--refer to your manual for what needs to be done and at what interval

Repairs
Estimated dollars spent divided by miles. Increases with size/price of vehicle and vehicle age.

Depreciation
  1. Go to kbb.com
  2. Under Car Values select Trade-in & Private Party Values
  3. Enter the details of your car and current mileage.
  4. Repeat step 3 with your car and 1000 additional miles
  5. Divide the difference in $ from step 4 by 1000 to calculate depreciation per mile

Insurance
If you are paying for additional rideshare insurance, add this cost as well

Example with a 2012 Toyota Camry, LE 4 cylinder, 70k miles

Gas
$2.70/28 = 9.6 cents/mile

Maintenance
Tires - $450/30,000 miles = 1.3 cents/mile
Oil - $40/10,000 miles = .4 cents/mile
Brakes - $600/70,000 miles = .9 cents/mile

Repairs
At this age the car generally won't need many repairs, but that has to be averaged against the small, but increasing change of a catastrophic repair item. Edmunds TCO predicts $2337 over following 75,000 miles on this vehicle (https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2012/st-101403728/cost-to-own/) = 3.1 cents/mile

Depreciation
4.2 cents/mile¹

Insurance
For this example we'll go with Uber and Lyft's insurance, and skip having any phase 1 collision/comprehensive

Total
19.5 cents / mile to drive a 2012 Camry LE

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¹ Edmunds doesn't share KBB's projection on depreciation per mile. It shows depreciation in the 7.5-8 cents/mile range, which would bring this car's running costs up to ~23 cents/mile.
 

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This post is for
  • People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
This post is not for
  • People who think that the IRS deduction ($.535/mile) equals the cost of operating a personal vehicle for rideshare, irrespective of what that vehicle is (e.g. 2009 Elantra = $.535, 2017 Panamera = $.535, etc.)
  • People who think their only cost to drive a vehicle for rideshare is gas because they "own it anyway"
To calculate the total cost per mile for your vehicle, sum the following items.

Gas
Cost per gallon in your city divided by your MPG

Maintenance
Tires - cost of new set of tires installed divided by miles you expect out of a set
Oil - cost oil change divided by miles per oil change
Brakes - cost of brake set divided by miles per change
Other - Above is typical; you may have additional items, such as coolant, required at scheduled intervals--refer to your manual for what needs to be done and at what interval

Repairs
Estimated dollars spent divided by miles. Increases with size/price of vehicle and vehicle age.

Depreciation
  1. Go to kbb.com
  2. Under Car Values select Trade-in & Private Party Values
  3. Enter the details of your car and current mileage.
  4. Repeat step 3 with your car and 1000 additional miles
  5. Divide the difference in $ from step 4 by 1000 to calculate depreciation per mile

Insurance
If you are paying for additional rideshare insurance, add this cost as well

Example with a 2012 Toyota Camry, LE 4 cylinder, 70k miles

Gas
$2.70/28 = 9.6 cents/mile

Maintenance
Tires - $450/30,000 miles = 1.3 cents/mile
Oil - $40/10,000 miles = .4 cents/mile
Brakes - $600/70,000 miles = .9 cents/mile

Repairs
At this age the car generally won't need many repairs, but that has to be averaged against the small, but increasing change of a catastrophic repair item. Edmunds TCO predicts $2337 over following 75,000 miles on this vehicle (https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2012/st-101403728/cost-to-own/) = 3.1 cents/mile

Depreciation
4.2 cents/mile¹

Insurance
For this example we'll go with Uber and Lyft's insurance, and skip having any phase 1 collision/comprehensive

Total
19.5 cents / mile to drive a 2012 Camry LE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
¹ Edmunds doesn't share KBB's projection on depreciation per mile. It shows depreciation in the 7.5-8 cents/mile range, which would bring this car's running costs up to ~23 cents/mile.
There's something your not accounting for,

the overall quality of the interior can have a huge impact on the value of a car, Using a car for uber will just overall wear things out that normally wouldn't get worn out... After 200,000 miles it shows..

Smell has a huge impact on it's resale value. Taxis build up a particular smell.. There's some of the company taxis i drive that have their own unique smell that i recognize by car. Using a car as a taxi, it will get it's own special funk over time, this will reduce the value.

Using a car as a taxi will take a HUGE toll on the interior of a car. Most high mileage cars have interior wear in exactly one seat, the driver seat. A used car dealer can swap in a replacement drivers seat and it will bump up the overall condition of a car's interior SEVERAL NOTCHES.. Poor to fair, fair to good, ect... You can't make that quick easy fix with a used taxi due to the overall wear and tear.

It's also only a matter of time until a car being used to uber end up on the car-fax report... It's ONLY A MATTER OF TIME... and it's 100% relevant to the car's resale value.

You know what else effects your resale value?

Sketchy service records... UberX and sketchy service records go together like Wetdog smell and wet dogs..

A car that has extensively been used for uber, well, it's probably not the poster child for good condition.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/buying-selling/kelley-blue-book4.htm

after a couple years, which will REALLY apply to an uber car?
  • Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.

  • Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.

  • Poor condition means that the vehicle has severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition. The vehicle may have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body. A vehicle with a branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage is considered "poor." A vehicle in poor condition may require an independent appraisal to determine its value.

After 3.5 years my 3.5 year old Sienna scored a poor AKA "where not going to give you an estimate it's such a piece of %(%"

That assessment lowered it's value relative to it's total Mileage by about $8,000.
It needed more engine work done than the car was worth if it was in fair condition (which it wasn't... believe me)

Baby an uber car, you'll be LUCKY to get fair, with good being an impossible dream, and a car with a blown engine coming in at poor. Let's face it, if you blow the engine on a car with 200,000+ miles your not going to fix it.
 

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Nice this is a good guide for the novice driver . I've done this same calculation for all of my cars . The two I drive the most have the following per mile estimated cost

2013 Ford Explorer Limited 31 cents a mile
2010 Audi A4 Avant 27 cents a mile

I save a good amount of money by doing 95% of my own work and having lots of connections on parts, tires, mounting and rotation

My depreciation will be pretty in line with kbb but I usually sell my uber cars after a year . .. My last car a 2015 Passat I drove for almost 70k miles and I only lost $1,500 on it , I usually buy my cars well under trade in value . By splitting my ride share usage on multiple cars (4 different cars ) I don't add crazy miles to any of them also by doing mostly premium rides I don't do a lot of rides . To make a $1,000 net I usually only need to give 20-25 rides

But even at these numbers it's almost impossible to make money in these types of cars on UberX which is why I almost exclusively do premium type rides only . If you're doing UberX you really need a car that costs under 18cents a mile to make base fares worth it . Buying a car with little to no depreciation (2004 ish Toyota or Honda for under $2500) and selling it after 40-50k miles is the way to go
 

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If you're doing UberX you really need a car that costs under 18cents a mile to make base fares worth it . Buying a car with little to no depreciation (2004 ish Toyota or Honda for under $2500) and selling it after 40-50k miles is the way to go
18c isn't low enough in Orlando...
(yes a 2 unpaid to 1 paid mile is realy what it is... too much of going 2 miles to take someone one, driving out to the boondocks making $14 then having to turn right back around if you ever want to get a trip..

with 18c a mile in costs my long time average of 2 unpaid per paid mile puts me at 54c PER PAID mile in costs with 53c per paid mile plus 8c per paid minute in revenue.

54c per paid mile in costs to 61-69c per paid mile in revenue (60 or 30 MPH) Putting your MAXIMUM per HOUR profit margin on X fares

DUH DUH DUH....

-1c per paid mile + 8c per minute, or

60 highway miles is... $4.20 in profit

30 city miles in one hour is... $4.50 in profit

Sitting parked is $4.80 in profit
 

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18c isn't low enough in Orlando...
(yes a 2 unpaid to 1 paid mile is realy what it is... too much of going 2 miles to take someone one, driving out to the boondocks making $14 then having to turn right back around if you ever want to get a trip..

with 18c a mile in costs my long time average of 2 unpaid per paid mile puts me at 54c PER PAID mile in costs with 53c per paid mile plus 8c per paid minute in revenue.

54c per paid mile in costs to 61-69c per paid mile in revenue (60 or 30 MPH) Putting your MAXIMUM per HOUR profit margin on X fares

DUH DUH DUH....

-1c per paid mile + 8c per minute, or

60 highway miles is... $4.20 in profit

30 city miles in one hour is... $4.50 in profit

Sitting parked is $4.80 in profit
I normally net over a BUCK a MILE including dead miles (but again I do select/XL/Premier/ Plus and X)

But I definitely don't have an equal dead to live miles , I'd say for every 10 miles I drive getting paid I've driven 13 miles . But I usually don't drive anywhere I wait to get my first ride from my house or spot a couple blocks away , I usually end my day when I get a ride near my house (I live in a downtown area) so my examples might be worthless. Also Denvers rates are much higher than Orlando I remember from taking Ubers in Orlando and Tampa and just being shocked at how cheap the rides were
 

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I normally net over a BUCK a MILE including dead miles (but again I do select/XL/Premier/ Plus and X)

But I definitely don't have an equal dead to live miles , I'd say for every 10 miles I drive getting paid I've driven 13 miles . But I usually don't drive anywhere I wait to get my first ride from my house or spot a couple blocks away , I usually end my day when I get a ride near my house (I live in a downtown area) so my examples might be worthless. Also Denvers rates are much higher than Orlando I remember from taking Ubers in Orlando and Tampa and just being shocked at how cheap the rides were
I'd kill for 10/13 miles being paid, Heck i'd kill for half...

Orlando is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid. That's my long term decades long average. I WISH i had equal paid to dead miles.

I'm barely at $1.00 per mile charging taxi rates in a taxi... ($2.40 per mile)
The last taxi shift i worked i drove 250 miles and had $275 in revenue. Or about $1.10

The HIGHEST service uber does in Orlando is $1.71 per mile, and i'm not spending $30,000+ on a used select car to make $1.71 a mile on a fraction of the trips, and .53 or .90 on the rest.

As to why the ratios are so bad, there's a lot of reasons for that. You'll never load at the airport between 4:00 AM and 10:00 AM but the odds of going there is really high.. You look at Orlando and it's a process of filling and emptying a few dozen addresses and that's a large % of the for-hire industry here. No one goes to the magic kingdom 1 hour before close, hundreds of fares come out.. driving empty downtown at night to load, driving empty from downtown in the morning.. Driving empty from the airport in the morning, driving empty to the airport in the evening to wait...

Pretty much only the hood has fares 24/7... I'm just being honest LOL

Also no one lives in the tourist area, no one...
So more dead empty miles...
 

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I'd kill for 10/13 miles being paid, Heck i'd kill for half...

Orlando is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid. That's my long term decades long average. I WISH i had equal paid to dead miles.

I'm barely at $1.00 per mile charging taxi rates in a taxi... ($2.40 per mile)
The last taxi shift i worked i drove 250 miles and had $275 in revenue. Or about $1.10

The HIGHEST service uber does in Orlando is $1.71 per mile, and i'm not spending $30,000+ on a used select car to make $1.71 a mile on a fraction of the trips, and .53 or .90 on the rest.

As to why the ratios are so bad, there's a lot of reasons for that. You'll never load at the airport between 4:00 AM and 10:00 AM but the odds of going there is really high.. You look at Orlando and it's a process of filling and emptying a few dozen addresses and that's a large % of the for-hire industry here. No one goes to the magic kingdom 1 hour before close, hundreds of fares come out.. driving empty downtown at night to load, driving empty from downtown in the morning.. Driving empty from the airport in the morning, driving empty to the airport in the evening to wait...

Pretty much only the hood has fares 24/7... I'm just being honest LOL

Also no one lives in the tourist area, no one...
So more dead empty miles...
Denver is a pretty solid place for rideshare with how far the airport is from the city . Also rates are decent (compared to say Orlando) Last week I netted $1270 (after deducting tolls and fuel) with 905 miles driven and 44 hours so $1.40 a mile . Today alone I worked 7 hours I made $347 after tolls and only drove 207 miles so today was $1.67 a miles

I usually don't accept rides over 3 miles away and I'd say the majority are under a mile a way , I usually park and wait for rides . I try to do as little X/Pool as I can and just focus on XL/Select , Lyft Premier and Plus .
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think since Mr. Chrome did such a good job breaking down the cost to drive a personal car for rideshare, he should develop a formula to determine the expected income, including number of rides per hour for every market. :)
If Uber would provide me read-access to their database I'm happy to write some queries :)
 

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Denver is a pretty solid place for rideshare with how far the airport is from the city . Also rates are decent (compared to say Orlando) Last week I netted $1270 (after deducting tolls and fuel) with 905 miles driven and 44 hours so $1.40 a mile . Today alone I worked 7 hours I made $347 after tolls and only drove 207 miles so today was $1.67 a miles

I usually don't accept rides over 3 miles away and I'd say the majority are under a mile a way , I usually park and wait for rides . I try to do as little X/Pool as I can and just focus on XL/Select , Lyft Premier and Plus .
Your getting solid numbers in Denver, i could make it work with that. The problem is spending 10 hours on uber, driving 200 miles and only having $110-120.

Last night i did a taxi shift... $250 with $90 in expenses, $160 profit

230 miles
78 were paid.
20 fares total.

$1.08 per driven mile.
 

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Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.

This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.

Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.
 

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Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.

This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.

Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.
Because Uber/Lyft and other rideshare cos. are simply app providers, not transportation cos. Don't you read the legal determinations?
 

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Because Uber/Lyft and other rideshare cos. are simply app providers, not transportation cos. Don't you read the legal determinations?
I know, I know, my bad. I've been diagnosed with a serious reading and comprehension problem.

Believe it is called something like "Dontbelieveeverhthingyoureadinatosisthelawitis".
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Why state agencies responsible for TNC regulations don't require Uber/Lyft to notify all new drivers and all drivers once a year of the average per mile cost and how to figure out Net Profits is beyond me.

This should be averages by markets and vehicle classes. And then numbers not internally "made up" by Uber/Lyft but generated by an independent accounting/audit company specializing in the Transportation Industry.

Just basic common sense regulations the government should be on top off.
Probably for the same reason these agencies do not advertise the fact that their insurance is pretty bad; that when you're driving looking for a ping you have zero collision insurance. Oh, they don't "hide it", but most people read "I have insurance with them, I'm good." Devil in the details.

UberDezNutz per mile is over twice what I can get in my market (I drive Xl). I'm sure that in time denver will be flooded as the race to the bottom continues.
 

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UberDezNutz per mile is over twice what I can get in my market (I drive Xl). I'm sure that in time denver will be flooded as the race to the bottom continues.
Denver is already over saturated with drivers look at stop light and if there are 10 cars 7 of them will have uber or lyft signage . I do well because of my placement, patience , and strategy . It also helps immensely that I live in a high demand area with a lot of wealthy people so select is actually pretty good for long Select airport rides (Avg pay from Denver to DIA on Select is $60+) the biggest thing is Lyft Power Zone all the time of 30-100% during the busy morning commute (Snagged regular $100+ Airport runs with Premier and Plus request attached to PZ )
 

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This post is for
  • People who own an insured personal vehicle and will drive additional miles on that vehicle for rideshare
This post is not for
  • People who think that the IRS deduction ($.535/mile) equals the cost of operating a personal vehicle for rideshare, irrespective of what that vehicle is (e.g. 2009 Elantra = $.535, 2017 Panamera = $.535, etc.)
  • People who think their only cost to drive a vehicle for rideshare is gas because they "own it anyway"
To calculate the total cost per mile for your vehicle, sum the following items.

Gas
Cost per gallon in your city divided by your MPG

Maintenance
Tires - cost of new set of tires installed divided by miles you expect out of a set
Oil - cost oil change divided by miles per oil change
Brakes - cost of brake set divided by miles per change
Other - Above is typical; you may have additional items, such as coolant, required at scheduled intervals--refer to your manual for what needs to be done and at what interval

Repairs
Estimated dollars spent divided by miles. Increases with size/price of vehicle and vehicle age.

Depreciation
  1. Go to kbb.com
  2. Under Car Values select Trade-in & Private Party Values
  3. Enter the details of your car and current mileage.
  4. Repeat step 3 with your car and 1000 additional miles
  5. Divide the difference in $ from step 4 by 1000 to calculate depreciation per mile

Insurance
If you are paying for additional rideshare insurance, add this cost as well

Example with a 2012 Toyota Camry, LE 4 cylinder, 70k miles

Gas
$2.70/28 = 9.6 cents/mile

Maintenance
Tires - $450/30,000 miles = 1.3 cents/mile
Oil - $40/10,000 miles = .4 cents/mile
Brakes - $600/70,000 miles = .9 cents/mile

Repairs
At this age the car generally won't need many repairs, but that has to be averaged against the small, but increasing change of a catastrophic repair item. Edmunds TCO predicts $2337 over following 75,000 miles on this vehicle (https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2012/st-101403728/cost-to-own/) = 3.1 cents/mile

Depreciation
4.2 cents/mile¹

Insurance
For this example we'll go with Uber and Lyft's insurance, and skip having any phase 1 collision/comprehensive

Total
19.5 cents / mile to drive a 2012 Camry LE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
¹ Edmunds doesn't share KBB's projection on depreciation per mile. It shows depreciation in the 7.5-8 cents/mile range, which would bring this car's running costs up to ~23 cents/mile.
New calculations need to be worked out for a Tesla.
 

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Your calculations on kbb are saying that your depreciation is linear and always the same. But from 50k miles to 60k miles should be more depreciation than 200k miles to 210k miles.
If anyone has a graphic calculator, plot on the graph many points at every 10000 miles and pull a polynomial equation. Then use that equation to get a rate of change at two different points. That would be more accurate. If people are interested I can give a step by step with pictures.

Also I would add 5% for extra things like phone accessories and other stuff

I got rear ended and had to pay some kind of bs claim fee on top of my deductible. So it doesn't hurt to round up and add a few more pennies.
 
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