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How many other no-skill minimum wage earning jobs let you pick when you work, where you work and who you work with and just for shits and giggles work for the competition at the same time?

I guess McDonald's and Wal*Mart let their no-skill workers pick the location they work at, when they will work, who they will work with and go across the street to Target or Carl's Jr. at the same time?

It's really odd how nobody ever seems to have an answer for this other than once we become employee's of Uber/Lyft, we will have a full time pay with no deductions, we will still get to work when we want, where we want and pick up who we want on both platforms at the same time because as an employee WE HAVE RIGHTS!!!!!!
how many other gigs depreciate your car to hell and then a better answer might develop
 

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oh oh oh where is the WOW reaction?
 

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1. We demand to know where we are going up front.

2. We demand to know how much we are getting paid.




I've been an employee, manager, general manager, employer and independent contractor.

No one is saying being an employee is better but drivers are not independent contractors.

Uber has to give up more control to drivers if they want them to be true independent contractors.
We can never be true ICs so long as Uber has a business relationship with the pax.

As soon as Uber collects their money, they become beholden to them. When issues arise, pax go to Uber, not the drivers for resolution.

Because Uber has to answer to the pax, they have to maintain control over the drivers.

This is how it is for other transport businesses (bus companies, livery services, airlines, etc.)

While we can never be true ICs, we can and should be treated exponentially better than we are now.
 

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It's all about the need for higher tax revenue to pay for social programs, as well as having greater control over your paycheque for up front deductions.
 

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And Biden won't put up with UL bs....

CNBC: Uber, Lyft, Doordash stocks fall sharply after U.S. Labor Secretary says gig workers should be classified as employees. Uber, Lyft, DoorDash stocks fall sharply after U.S. Labor secretary says gig workers should be classified as employees
Typical Democrat/Union BS. Force us to be employees so we pay much, much, much higher tax rates, preferably while being forced to pay union dues that are then funneled to Democrat campaigns. If Democrats cared about you as a worker, they'd be making it easier for you to be independent, not force you to be dependent on unions for "benefits". If Republicans cared about you, they'd be making it easier for you to be independent, not dependent on an employer for "benefits". Neither party cares about you beyond election day, which is why they fight the most over whether to allow you to vote or not.
 

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I'd agree that the 脺ber and Lyft crews want their cake and eat it too. They push the fiction that this is rideshare rather than a taxi service and that their drivers are Independent Contractors
This is the issue I have in this debate. Democrats insist we just want "benefits", and Uber/Lyft/Dash insist we just want "flexibility". Both ignore our core need to be paid fairly for our time and our cars so that we can pay for our own "benefits". Neither wants us to have any actual negotiating power because we might get what we expect.

I mean, just look at the email Uber sent this week asking us to invite, for a mere $200 bonus, former drivers back on the road so we can all earn less and Uber earns more. No thanks. I like when pricing power is in the hands of drivers. Why insult me with $200?
 

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"But, I guess here we go again."

Nah. No need to rehash the arguments of the past. But I was for AB5. And I said at the time I didn't object to it being replaced by a better law. But 22 clearly wasn't it.
I'd like to sign a petition to repeal both AB5 and Prop 22. And I'd vote for it. What fool thought it a good idea to outlaw sole proprietorship? No fool that ever gets another vote from me, that's for sure.

Recall Gavin Newsome. It's time the SF/LA collective gets a wakeup call.
 

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I'm on record as saying Prop 22 was the lesser of 2 evils.

Not one person on this forum could counter the fact that if AB5 was it Uber et al would not have hired everybody. In fact, a minority would have been. There was no single benefit that paid for that outcome. Hence nobody jumping in to defend AB5 when that was mentioned.

But, I guess here we go again.
Says the guy who sits idle at home collecting the freebies that the socialists are handing out.
 

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And people wouldn't believe me when I said I was from the future bearing witness to it's downfall, so far we are on track.

Prop 22 while a small victory (and a cautionary tale when dealing with Uber) has helped their downfall (California pay cuts anyone?), this has cemented the truth about Uber's intention and now that Biden is ready to unleash hell on this "glitch" in the labor department, they will be facing ZERO support from their drivers, of course we speak... about the very little niche they managed to convince (ants mostly), I mean, how does it feel to be as desperate as those drivers you kept on ****ing over? Now drivers aren't desperate, they are collecting and doing other stuff, some may be smart enough to use SBA loans to start a business, they have realized their lives aren't worth 10 bucks an hour through COVID, you have no platoon anymore, Uber, you cannot keep the farce going by flooding your driver pool, your boost will last for so long... and when you dry up, whatever was there taking advantage of you, will be gone too, I hope you plan to bonus for 7 more months, LOL.


Uber had ONE chance at taking the right path on their timeline fork, they failed to deliver, now it's time to see it all crumble like a house of cards.

Dang Uber.. you had but one simple option... change your app and figure out a way to make it work while allowing people to see destinations and set their prices... not only have you ruined it for yourselves, you have ruined it for every other d-bag trying to exploit this labor loophole.

PS: Can you and Lyft stop sending me messages to drive? I hate spam 馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ
 

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how many other gigs depreciate your car to hell and then a better answer might develop
If you don't want to lose value in your car, don't use it for business. It's really not a hard concept. Use your car for business purposes, expect your car to lose value.

Do you really think other small business owners don't have business expenses? Even the guy with a horn who sells corn has to buy the cart, corn and the horn.
 

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If you don't want to lose value in your car, don't use it for business. It's really not a hard concept. Use your car for business purposes, expect your car to lose value.

Do you really think other small business owners don't have business expenses? Even the guy with a horn who sells corn has to buy the cart, corn and the horn.
Along with buying the cart, corn and horn, the guy with the corn cart buys his own supplies, SETS HIS OWN PRICES, figures out his own destination and works the hours he wants.

He is more of a small business owner than an Uber driver.

I'd bet he makes twice as much money per hour as well.

Damn corn is up to 2 bux each now!
 

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Along with buying the cart, corn and horn, the guy with the corn cart buys his own supplies, SETS HIS OWN PRICES, figures out his own destination and works the hours he wants.

He is more of a small business owner than an Uber driver.

I'd bet he makes twice as much money per hour as well.

Damn corn is up to 2 bux each now!
Our local Horn for Corn guy charges $3 for a ear of corn but I highly doubt he makes more than you make with rideshare. At least not in my case.

I won't argue taking away the fare multiplier doesn't suck. We should be able to set our own prices. However its really delusional to think being an employee of these two shyster companies will be a good thing. Once you become and employee of one, and even then that will be a long shot, you will have zero freedoms to do the job your way.

I will never become an employee of Uber or Lyft even if given the chance to be one. So for me the gig ends when I have to sign a W2 and that's OK. For those who think Daddy Government will solve your problems by making you an employee in a no-skill line of work, good luck. Enjoy that 2-5AM work shift in Stabtown 30 miles from you home where YOU WILL pick up anyone and everyone or be fired!
 

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Our local Horn for Corn guy charges $3 for a ear of corn but I highly doubt he makes more than you make with rideshare. At least not in my case.

I won't argue taking away the fare multiplier doesn't suck. We should be able to set our own prices. However its really delusional to think being an employee of these two shyster companies will be a good thing. Once you become and employee of one, and even then that will be a long shot, you will have zero freedoms to do the job your way.

I will never become an employee of Uber or Lyft even if given the chance to be one. So for me the gig ends when I have to sign a W2 and that's OK. For those who think Daddy Government will solve your problems by making you an employee in a no-skill line of work, good luck. Enjoy that 2-5AM work shift in Stabtown 30 miles from you home where YOU WILL pick up anyone and everyone or be fired!
I thought 2 bux was high. I keep saying, ima have to go to the store and buy my own corn and cook it, then I don't.

I have noticed a second corn guy, so that's probably kept prices down a little but I'm loyal to my corn guy.

I live in the hood (a rapidly gentrifying hood but nevertheless still the hood), not much scares me. I've even repoed cars at midnight in South Central.

My corn guy makes ten bux on me most days because i buy one for me, my mom, my daughter, my brother and his wife. Then the neighbor comes by and buys for his family, spends another ten bux.

Then he rides a couple hundred feet down the street and is stopped by someone else.

I'd bet he makes about a hundred bux an hour minus expenses.

Most importantly, he's the happiest person I know. Loves his job.
 

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Along with buying the cart, corn and horn, the guy with the corn cart buys his own supplies, SETS HIS OWN PRICES, figures out his own destination and works the hours he wants.

He is more of a small business owner than an Uber driver.

I'd bet he makes twice as much money per hour as well.

Damn corn is up to 2 bux each now!
I think we sometimes over estimate the flexibility of independent contractors and business owners. I mean sure, theoretically they can set own hours, and reject jobs they don't like, etc. But I assume if a plumber (etc,) starts turning down jobs whenever they don't feel like working, or only accepting the best jobs, then their business could quickly dry up.

I've only had minor experience running my own business But I noticed that customers who require small or inconvenient work or services, are often the same ones who call later (or refer other customers) with better opportunities. So turning down work willy nilly can be realistically impractical. And in some ways, driver apps can be more flexible in practice.

The problem with gig apps, is they fall between traditional employment categories, and as such may need their own category and regulations.
 

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I think we sometimes over estimate the flexibility of independent contractors and business owners. I mean sure, theoretically they can set own hours, and reject jobs they don't like, etc. But I assume if a plumber (etc,) starts turning down jobs whenever they don't feel like working, or only accepting the best jobs, then their business could quickly dry up.

I've only had minor experience running my own business But I noticed that customers who require small or inconvenient work or services, are often the same ones who call later (or refer other customers) with better opportunities. So turning down work willy nilly can be realistically impractical. And in some ways, driver apps can be more flexible in practice.

The problem with gig apps, is they fall between traditional employment categories, and as such may need their own category and regulations.
Considering how many RS drivers there are in a big city, it would highly be unlikely for you to get the same RS driver twice. Tha's why it doesn't matter whether you develop a relationship with a pax. In the final analysis, if I don't get the fare information upfront before I accept the trip and I am unable to set my own rates. I am really an Uber employee and not an IC. Uber cannot have it both ways. They cannot get the benefits of not paying Unemployment insurance, Social Security and sick days, but still have considerable control over their "ICs".

The fact that they gave these benefits to the CA drivers is an admission that they had too much control to ever be exempt from AB-5. Now the stupid drivers that voted for Prop 22 are regretting their decision, because they discovered that large corporations don't keep their word and cannot be trusted.
 

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I think we sometimes over estimate the flexibility of independent contractors and business owners. I mean sure, theoretically they can set own hours, and reject jobs they don't like, etc. But I assume if a plumber (etc,) starts turning down jobs whenever they don't feel like working, or only accepting the best jobs, then their business could quickly dry up.

I've only had minor experience running my own business But I noticed that customers who require small or inconvenient work or services, are often the same ones who call later (or refer other customers) with better opportunities. So turning down work willy nilly can be realistically impractical. And in some ways, driver apps can be more flexible in practice.

The problem with gig apps, is they fall between traditional employment categories, and as such may need their own category and regulations.
Considering how many RS drivers there are in a big city, it would highly be unlikely for you to get the same RS driver twice. Tha's why it doesn't matter whether you develop a relationship with a pax. In the final analysis, if I don't get the fare information upfront before I accept the trip and I am unable to set my own rates. I am really an Uber employee and not an IC. Uber cannot have it both ways. They cannot get the benefits of not paying Unemployment insurance, Social Security and sick days, but still have considerable control over their "ICs".

The fact that they gave these benefits to the CA drivers is an admission that they had too much control to ever be exempt from AB-5. Now the stupid drivers that voted for Prop 22 are regretting their decision, because they discovered that large corporations don't keep their word and cannot be trusted.
That's the difference.

Passengers are customers of Uber not the drivers.

You cannot grow your business without controlling your customer contacts.
 
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You also can't control the quality of the customer experience because as @Gone_in_60_seconds said a driver may not get to ever service the same customer again.
 

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while being forced to pay union dues
you see Biden hasn't been sat down and explained to yet. He doesn't get to have a union one must be an employee. to have a union the employees must all vote to 'become' a union.

Becoming an employee isn't happening anytime soon and all drivers voting 50% plus 1 to unionize isn't happening either.

Driver, at least in calif, already spoke.
 

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I think we sometimes over estimate the flexibility of independent contractors and business owners. I mean sure, theoretically they can set own hours, and reject jobs they don't like, etc. But I assume if a plumber (etc,) starts turning down jobs whenever they don't feel like working, or only accepting the best jobs, then their business could quickly dry up
That's up to the contactor to decide, not Uber.

I've only had minor experience running my own business But I noticed that customers who require small or inconvenient work or services, are often the same ones who call later (or refer other customers) with better opportunities. So turning down work willy nilly can be realistically impractical. And in some ways, driver apps can be more flexible in practice.
Assumption.

The problem with gig apps, is they fall between traditional employment categories, and as such may need their own category and regulations.
Both you and Uber would like that.

Uber would kill to have a 3rd classification to create the ultimate slave.

Truth is: Uber has unrealistic expectations, they went from Prada to Old Navy to make more money and decided to dump the cost on their drivers, in reality, if they were to control the entire transportation network of the US and paid everyone fairly, they still wouldn't make that much money, the point was for them to explore other areas and try the same loophole but they were too late and had a piss poor plan to make some of it happen, they then went to war with their labor and sub sequentially are in deep shit at the moment.

It's uver for Uber, none of this would have happened had they kept themselves from trying to exploit their labor, now it's too late to be trusted and too late for apologies.

I will never become an employee of Uber or Lyft even if given the chance to be one. So for me the gig ends when I have to sign a W2 and that's OK. For those who think Daddy Government will solve your problems by making you an employee in a no-skill line of work, good luck. Enjoy that 2-5AM work shift in Stabtown 30 miles from you home where YOU WILL pick up anyone and everyone or be fired!
I thought you were employed by them already.
 

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now where is the that darn WOW reaction? It would save a lot of time.....
 
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