[Magic Dancer]

IMO every liberal should have one, they deserve it...

“Liberal “ means “freedom “.

 

[Atavar]

“Liberal “ means “freedom “.

Freedom to pay for everyone else.

 

[butchnelson6971]

Freedom to pay for everyone else.

Personally I hope everyone believes that electric cars suck! I do Uber I do Lyft I make very good money because of one main reason. If I was to put gasoline in my car and drive it around it would cost $70, in my electric car it cost an average of less than $10 in electricity. The $70 in gasoline and the $10 in electricity takes me the exact same distance. If you don't get it you should. But if you don't that's great I'll just keep making good money and you guys can keep driving your gasoline vehicles have a huge turnover rate not make money it's on you. Keep believing the BS and I'm fine with it. Now if you want to stop believing BS and lies take a few minutes Google your question like what is the warranty of a battery on a tesla. How long does the battery on a Tesla last before it starts degrading. What is the difference between the price of gasoline and electric and how far will it take you in comparison? Do some research on your own and stop believing other people. This is the best advice anyone can ever give the idiots on this forum. Good luck and get informed that not my others take the time and learn for yourself. Good luck and to all the people that don't like electric cars I hope you never ever in your life has the opportunity to have all of the advantages of having electric car. That's my wish to you enjoy!

 

[Wil Mette]

I can only speak to your last paragraph. An ICE vehicle will ALWAYS be less expensive TCO over the life of the vehicle.

At about 7 years, hybrids achieve equilibrium with ICE’s. There isn’t enough data, nor is there a need, to study beyond seven years as most cars will find a 2nd life in the wholesale market and can’t easily be tracked.

After seven years of full-time rideshare driving, you will be lucky if your car is not rear-ended & totaled. An ICE car will not last seven years of full-time driving.

 

[Uberdiaper]

70% of Americans live in single family homes so charging isn't an issue for them. New chargers can share a dryer breaker.

This guy's Kia will charge in 18 minutes. Now apparently he did zero homework on seeing if his area had level 3 chargers! Pretty dumb really.

Range isn't a problem with newer EVs.

So yeah....EVs work fine. If you don't think so, stop watching Tucker!

In my area you can charge overnight for 10 cents a KW. So $7-8 for a full charge. Do the math, that's about 3 cents per mile. Plus no oil changes, almost not brake jobs. But tires do wear faster. It saves money regardless of what the Tucker fans say. Plus...you blow away most every poor ICE owner in the 0-60! They hate that!!!

 

[butchnelson6971]

70% of Americans live in single family homes so charging isn't an issue for them. New chargers can share a dryer breaker.

This guy's Kia will charge in 18 minutes. Now apparently he did zero homework on seeing if his area had level 3 chargers! Pretty dumb really.

Range isn't a problem with newer EVs.

So yeah....EVs work fine. If you don't think so, stop watching Tucker!

In my area you can charge overnight for 10 cents a KW. So $7-8 for a full charge. Do the math, that's about 3 cents per mile. Plus no oil changes, almost not brake jobs. But tires do wear faster. It saves money regardless of what the Tucker fans say. Plus...you blow away most every poor ICE owner in the 0-60! They hate that!!!

Wow I pay .13 cants a kilowatt hour in Independence Missouri overnight on the 3rd tier. Most people don't understand that there are different tiers of electricity that you pay depending on the time that you charge. The cheapest time overnight where I live is from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. having a smart car I tell it to charge between those hours and that's how I get the 13 cents a kilowatt hour.

 

[guano]

“Liberal “ means “freedom “.

lib

“Liberal “ means “freedom “.

no it doesn't...

 

[Emptynesst]

I have not been censored here without cause and notice.
Could it be perhaps you went a bit over the line?

I’m with batshit on this one , rarely do I cross the line , unless some dipshit says something I don’t agree with 🤷‍♂️

 

[butchnelson6971]

I’m with batshit on this one , rarely do I cross the line , unless some dipshit says something I don’t agree with 🤷‍♂️

I agree and from Google The meaning is relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

Nowhere in any meaning does it say freedom.

 

[W00dbutcher]

I agree and from Google The meaning is relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

Nowhere in any meaning does it say freedom.

Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian and libertine all trace their etymology to the Latin root liber, which means "free". One of the first recorded instances of the word liberal occurred in 1375 when it was used to describe the liberal arts in the context of an education desirable for a free-born man.

 

[butchnelson6971]

Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian and libertine all trace their etymology to the Latin root liber, which means "free". One of the first recorded instances of the word liberal occurred in 1375 when it was used to describe the liberal arts in the context of an education desirable for a free-born man.

So yeah in 1375 that might be the meaning but we don't live in 1375.

 

[Emptynesst]

So yeah in 1375 that might be the meaning but we don't live in 1375.

Correct , it’s the 1970s in terms of pay

 

[W00dbutcher]

So yeah in 1375 that might be the meaning but we don't live in 1375.

I would suggest reading the very first line of what liberal means.

1. Willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

Oxford Dictionary.

 

[W00dbutcher]

And yes, liberal does mean free.

How would you explain the following sentence?

The doctor told me to apply this liberally on the burn.

 

[dauction]

I can only speak to your last paragraph. An ICE vehicle will ALWAYS be less expensive TCO over the life of the vehicle.

At about 7 years, hybrids achieve equilibrium with ICE’s. There isn’t enough data, nor is there a need, to study beyond 7 years as most cars will find a 2nd life in the wholesale market and can’t easily be tracked.

Not Factual , my 2017 Bolt 2 1/2 years driving rideshare 150K miles. MPG equivalent of 185MPG. No Oil Changes, no rusty loud exhaust system etc... Very very cheap to own and operate.

13cents kWh charging at home $7.80 to filler up.

Now the Cons.. Winter Range on the Bolt sucks .. (dose not have a heat pump) worst range 120 miles at 20 below zero F..(maybe 15 days out of the year) best range 292 miles ..Avergae spring to fall usually 270 miles City ...220 miles hwy 70mph.

OP is correct on a few things .. to run the least expensive way is to charge at home in a gargage..so that you cna install a 240 outlet in the gargae so you always have you car fully charged next morning.
If you run more than 250 miles in spring/summer early fall you WILL need to charge at DCFC "fast" charger and just like Oil ..these guys will sock it to you as well ..price will be genrally be 3-5 times the cost to fill up @ home..speaking of Oil Shell OIl Co is now one of the largets owners of EV charging station (Shell Recharge)..The Good News is you CAN almost totaly flip them the bird because 80% of your charging will be cheap at home


SLOW DCFC charging on the Chevy Bolt at DCFC ...50kW max.. I will trading in for the Chevy Equinox next year .. 150Kw charging ! base model perfect for Rideshare starts at 30K -$7,500 rebate (at the dealer if you wait for 2024.)

Next to cheap fueling costs is the fact that there really arent any maintence costs ..I change tires twice a year and other than my multimedia screen went out ..nothing . It just runs perfect .

I also have a 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid that I use for Amazon deliveries 30 mpg..It's "ok" but crap I've already replaced brakes , (no you most likely will never change brakes on your EV if you use regen) , had to replace a part of exhaust last week and ready for a oil change..just always "something" nickle and diming me with it.



I do understand OPs vent.. DCFC infrastructure is to fragmented at this stage ...and many times you show up the charger is down..places like Colorado, Arizona, Texas , California etc. they have multiple chargers at each location so they can jjust slide over to the next charger.. Here in Minnesote most stations have just 1 DCFC charger and if it's down you have to drive across town to the next one. BUT the infrastructure is growing..and tens of thousands of new DCFC chargers going to be installed in 2023 alone..

I cna dela with alittle inconvience once in a while because it is soooo much cheaper running my Bolt than a ICE vehicle ..for $7 of electricity i go as far as a 30 mpg ICEpaying $24(not even calculating Oil and other maintence) ..extra $300 or so in my pocket every month

 

[FiftySeven]

Electric Cars don't suck, yet I think the considerable variance in the driving experience does suck.

My previous job was working with certain (non-Tesla) electric cars and testing them with public charging stations.

I am currently (short term) driving a Tesla Model 3 Long Range full-time with Uber.

No matter what electric car you drive: if you can drive a full (or split) shift on one "charge" (or only need a small boost during) AND you can charge at home, you can have a good to a great experience.


Range, Charging Speed, vehicle / driving Efficiency, style, and average speed all have an impact.

"DC Fast Charging"

The best I saw at public charging stations while working was 100 miles per hour added. (Not fast enough for driving Uber full-time IMHO)
That was only when:
A. The single charging plug was available. (very often)
B. The single charging plug worked within 2 attempts to start the charge (rarely successful)
C. There was an alternate charging plug within 5 miles when the plug in B. above failed. (often)
D. The phone app I was using had current and accurate information (50 / 50)

Electrify America sites (6 to 10 charging plugs per site) were only just coming online. They were more expensive than gas at the time.


"Tesla Supercharging"

The best I have seen was about 250 miles added in about 30 minutes, to reach 80% charge.
A. Typically, there are 8 plugs at each site
B. You know which plugs are out of order before you arrive (checking the navigation map points)
C. The charge starts without needing to swipe a card or use an app to start.


A Kia Niro / Bolt driver, with a (roughly) 240-mile functional range, driving mostly highway in an area with few workable and accessible chargers is going to have a poorer driving experience than a 310-mile functional range car driving in mostly city traffic with 8-plug charging stations always within 30 miles.

 

[Diamondraider]

Not Factual , my 2017 Bolt 2 1/2 years driving rideshare 150K miles. MPG equivalent of 185MPG. No Oil Changes, no rusty loud exhaust system etc... Very very cheap to own and operate.

13cents kWh charging at home $7.80 to filler up.

Now the Cons.. Winter Range on the Bolt sucks .. (dose not have a heat pump) worst range 120 miles at 20 below zero F..(maybe 15 days out of the year) best range 292 miles ..Avergae spring to fall usually 270 miles City ...220 miles hwy 70mph.

OP is correct on a few things .. to run the least expensive way is to charge at home in a gargage..so that you cna install a 240 outlet in the gargae so you always have you car fully charged next morning.
If you run more than 250 miles in spring/summer early fall you WILL need to charge at DCFC "fast" charger and just like Oil ..these guys will sock it to you as well ..price will be genrally be 3-5 times the cost to fill up @ home..speaking of Oil Shell OIl Co is now one of the largets owners of EV charging station (Shell Recharge)..The Good News is you CAN almost totaly flip them the bird because 80% of your charging will be cheap at home


SLOW DCFC charging on the Chevy Bolt at DCFC ...50kW max.. I will trading in for the Chevy Equinox next year .. 150Kw charging ! base model perfect for Rideshare starts at 30K -$7,500 rebate (at the dealer if you wait for 2024.)

Next to cheap fueling costs is the fact that there really arent any maintence costs ..I change tires twice a year and other than my multimedia screen went out ..nothing . It just runs perfect .

I also have a 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid that I use for Amazon deliveries 30 mpg..It's "ok" but crap I've already replaced brakes , (no you most likely will never change brakes on your EV if you use regen) , had to replace a part of exhaust last week and ready for a oil change..just always "something" nickle and diming me with it.



I do understand OPs vent.. DCFC infrastructure is to fragmented at this stage ...and many times you show up the charger is down..places like Colorado, Arizona, Texas , California etc. they have multiple chargers at each location so they can jjust slide over to the next charger.. Here in Minnesote most stations have just 1 DCFC charger and if it's down you have to drive across town to the next one. BUT the infrastructure is growing..and tens of thousands of new DCFC chargers going to be installed in 2023 alone..

I cna dela with alittle inconvience once in a while because it is soooo much cheaper running my Bolt than a ICE vehicle ..for $7 of electricity i go as far as a 30 mpg ICEpaying $24(not even calculating Oil and other maintence) ..extra $300 or so in my pocket every month

I hope you used “speak to text” because I don’t want you to get carpal tunnel and still earn an F on your posting.

You have a 2017 vehicle. Come back in 2025 and we can “start” your comparative analysis.

 

[Diamondraider]

I hope you used “speak to text” because I don’t want you to get carpal tunnel and still earn an F on your posting.

You have a 2017 vehicle. Come back in 2025 and we can “start” your comparative analysis.

Electric Cars don't suck, yet I think the considerable variance in the driving experience does suck.

My previous job was working with certain (non-Tesla) electric cars and testing them with public charging stations.

I am currently (short term) driving a Tesla Model 3 Long Range full-time with Uber.

No matter what electric car you drive: if you can drive a full (or split) shift on one "charge" (or only need a small boost during) AND you can charge at home, you can have a good to a great experience.


Range, Charging Speed, vehicle / driving Efficiency, style, and average speed all have an impact.

"DC Fast Charging"

The best I saw at public charging stations while working was 100 miles per hour added. (Not fast enough for driving Uber full-time IMHO)
That was only when:
A. The single charging plug was available. (very often)
B. The single charging plug worked within 2 attempts to start the charge (rarely successful)
C. There was an alternate charging plug within 5 miles when the plug in B. above failed. (often)
D. The phone app I was using had current and accurate information (50 / 50)

Electrify America sites (6 to 10 charging plugs per site) were only just coming online. They were more expensive than gas at the time.


"Tesla Supercharging"

The best I have seen was about 250 miles added in about 30 minutes, to reach 80% charge.
A. Typically, there are 8 plugs at each site
B. You know which plugs are out of order before you arrive (checking the navigation map points)
C. The charge starts without needing to swipe a card or use an app to start.


A Kia Niro / Bolt driver, with a (roughly) 240-mile functional range, driving mostly highway in an area with few workable and accessible chargers is going to have a poorer driving experience than a 310-mile functional range car driving in mostly city traffic with 8-plug charging stations always within 30 miles.

Thank you for the first accurate post I have seen regarding EV tires. It is an eye opener for many uninformed.

Between battery waste and increased tire disposal, I’m finding the environmental case for EV’s to be farcical.

 

[Palermoguy]

Ok. He's blocked.

Oh no Mr. Tron blocked me let me go buy a gun so I can go shoot myself.

So I drive a 2022 model 3 LR. I wanted to reply to this uniformed individual personally.

"If you don't have a garage then don't get an EV because it's not worth it!"

False: owning a EV and getting the majority of it's benefits does NOT take a garage. The garage does not keep you from the benefits of no more gasoline, oil, antifreeze, water, transmission fluid, on and on.

"I traded my 2018 Camry for a Kia Niro EV and it's been nothing but a nightmare!"

This is your personal experience because you probably have no clue what it means to own and operate an EV and it's obvious because of what your run-on paragraph talked about.

"There's not enough chargers out there"

you are simply uneducated on the apps to find them.There are literally thousands of chargers.
Chargepoint and plug share are two major apps that will show you where all the free chargers are and I'm talking about thousands locally."

"and the ones that are out there don't work or they're offline or they're defected."

This statement is completely false. Well over 95% of the chargers if not 98% of the chargers work perfectly. The problem is is you don't know where they're at, any of them. Simply put you're still ignorant on where to find the chargers.

"Most of them are level 2 chargers and it takes twelve hours to charge"

This statement is absolutely true but you don't understand what a destination charger is what a level 2 charger is and what a supercharger is used for. You think that a level 2 charger is for fast charging and it absolutely is not. Level 2 charging and destination charging is for slow charging overnight for normal driving. Fast charging is for driving state to state. You are trying to use different charges for different things because you're uneducated. And then you want to complain about it when it's your fault.

"and the level 3 chargers take two hours but it'll cost you $25 bucks so I have charge it twice a day and waste four hours and pay $50 bucks to keep this car running."

This is a false statement it does not take 2 hours to charge your car at a supercharger. 15 minutes will get your battery at 80%. That's a minimum of 250 mi more than enough to get you on the road to drive people around. It might be your ignorance that has you sitting there for the last 20% because it takes 40 minutes for the last 20%. So again this is an ignorance issue. You don't understand how a car even charges. Of course you have to pay for electricity and even at the highest superchargers you're still paying the half the price of gasoline to take you the same distance. You make it sound as though it's costing you $50 to fill your electric vehicle up and it's not. It might cost you that to do it twice but if you were to do it with gasoline I guarantee 100% it would cost you two times as much.

"Then if it's cold out you lose half of your battery life."

Another false statement. You do not lose 50% of your battery unless you are in -40 to 60° weather. Now will you lose 10 to 25% absolutely true. But in all reality it is not negative zero 365 days a year. You act as though everyday it's Sub-Zero temperatures, do you live in the arctic? Be real in your statements not so ignorant.

"I was better off keeping my Camry it was cheaper."

Of course this statement is 100% true and 100% false. The Camry is not cheaper than the electric vehicle in everyday use. What you said is a lie and you said it because you are uninformed on how to operate and use an EV. The 100% true part is you were better off keeping your Camry. I hope you keep your Camry I hope you never ever get the benefits of an electric vehicle.

I'll be honest, I like the way you break it down I'm the same way I hold people accountable for what they say when most people just ignore it so I appreciate that.

Now, I can already tell that you're a mister know it all and that's why you're probably single and if you're not single then that's why your partner can't stand you but anyway, let's see how much of an idiot you are.

First of all, I can read a map and most of the chargers out in Chicago are level 2 chargers and they take forever to charge.

I got into an argument with EVgo yesterday because they sent me to two different places that didn't work.

I've elevated to the level of General Manager in the car business for over 30 years and Its not hard to operate an EV vehicle and Im not as stupid as you think I am.

I don't have a Tesla to supercharge we don't have those chargers for a Kia it takes 90 minutes to charge my car and it's $25 average each time and I have to do it twice a day. I waste two hours a day running around trying to find ones that work.

At 100% charged I get 220 miles and the minute I drive two miles and I turn the heater on it goes down to 180 miles and it keeps dropping from there.

You're just a big mouth moron who thinks he knows it all and you're better then everyone else in your own mind. Get your facts straight or go be a professor at some university if youre that smart.

ELECTRIC CARS SUCK IF YOU DONT HAVE A GARAGE TO PARK IT IN. THATS THE BOTTOM LINE!

 

[Palermoguy]

Personally I hope everyone believes that electric cars suck! I do Uber I do Lyft I make very good money because of one main reason. If I was to put gasoline in my car and drive it around it would cost $70, in my electric car it cost an average of less than $10 in electricity. The $70 in gasoline and the $10 in electricity takes me the exact same distance. If you don't get it you should. But if you don't that's great I'll just keep making good money and you guys can keep driving your gasoline vehicles have a huge turnover rate not make money it's on you. Keep believing the BS and I'm fine with it. Now if you want to stop believing BS and lies take a few minutes Google your question like what is the warranty of a battery on a tesla. How long does the battery on a Tesla last before it starts degrading. What is the difference between the price of gasoline and electric and how far will it take you in comparison? Do some research on your own and stop believing other people. This is the best advice anyone can ever give the idiots on this forum. Good luck and get informed that not my others take the time and learn for yourself. Good luck and to all the people that don't like electric cars I hope you never ever in your life has the opportunity to have all of the advantages of having electric car. That's my wish to you enjoy!

YOURE ANOTHER MORON JUST LIKE THE OTHER GUY!
Your not comparing apples to apples IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A TESLA IM TALKING ABOUT EVERY OTHER ELECTRIC CAR THAT ISNT A TESLA!

Get your facts straight big mouth just because it's convenient for you doesn't mean it's convenient for everyone else.