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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been a lurker here for a while.
I'm going to start with full disclosure. Am I a taxi driver? No but I am employed in a capacity where I service the taxi industry.
Do I have a vested interest in the outcome of a uber v taxi industry bun fight? Sort of. If i lose my job I can adapt and move on.
I might not even be welcome here and so be it. This is a forum for uber drivers and i understand that. Most of you maybthink that I'm a licence holder and am here to spy. Well i can assure you that I am not a licence holder. I'm not going to spit diatribes like other taxi drivers on here I'm just looking to have a bit of a discussion in regards to the whole industry.

Like I said I'm a long time lurker and it is clear there are some extremely intelligent people on here who are making a good go at uber, and lets be honest this has been the most affordable way to start your own business and work for yourself.

How would I personally like to see this party out you ask? (You didn't ask)
I love to see both survive. I've seen by the posts in regards to GST implementation that the vast majority of you guys just want to earn a living, pay your taxes and go home when you knock off. This is everyone's basic right. (Well right to even have to pay taxes but that's a complete different story. Watch zeitgeist. Specifically the part about the American federal reserve).
Uber is here to stay. FACT. Taxis want an even playing field. FACT. Imagine if by some miracle the government somehow managed to buy back taxi licenses and deregulated the industry to a certain extent. Not completely because there is not a industry in the world that can self regulate without screwing either the consumer of the worker. Uber would go up a bit making it possible for drivers to make a decent living. Taxis would come down so that they coukd make a decent living also. And the undesirable taxi drivers will have to lift their game. Trust me the taxi companies are now aware that this is a major driving force of ubers success. If the government is stepping in then they may as well sort cabcharge's 10% fee because this is killing us. I mean seriously, how can they still be allowed to do this.
There are plenty of people who for one reason or another can't do many other jobs. Taxis give them an opportunity for employment when they can't afford a uber car.

This is a difficult industry. I've been around it 13 years and I know many mum and dad licence owners who have worked ridiculously hard over the years get where they are.

Like I said if I'm not welcome here I'll get my bat and ball and head home. I'm open for criticism. Won't bite or spew nonsensical arguments like drivers who are on here. Want to see us all get along and not end with an American like economy where we get screwed while a corporation fists us while using our tears for lube. Because if uber get the monopoly, in a few years the consumers will start getting screwed to. Don't even get me started on this country losing more home grown industry. I come from a line of farmers and have relatives stiill farming (buy dairy farmers milk)
 

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Welcome, feel free to join the conversation. Many UP users are from different areas of ground transport and actively participate in noteworthy discussion.
 

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I'm just looking to have a bit of a discussion in regards to the whole industry.
To a very large extent, so am I. There are plenty of wise heads here, if you've been quietly observing things, I figure you know that already. Me, I don't pretend to know everything, just put in my two cents when I figure it's appropriate and/or constructive (and I sometimes add the occasional corny joke, to amuse myself, if no one else.).

I like hearing from taxi drivers and hire car drivers. Operators too, come to that. I see myself as a driver in the same industry - the passenger transport industry. Like it or not, rideshare is going to be here for the duration. That's all I pretend to know... well, actually I do know one other thing...

"...life ain't nothin' but a funny funny riddle... THANK GOD I'M A COUNTRY BOY!":p

Welcome to UP Blankety Blanks :)
~
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Agree with you. Reading responses, especially in a couple threads the intelligence of many members is above average. Some of the ideas in regards to moving forward are very insightful and would actually work from what I can see.

On a side note, I was wondering how you guys feel about driver safety? Driver assaults are not something I've heard about with uber. This could be partly due to it being cashless and therefore not anonymous. Also I suspect that pax seem to be more accepting of uber drivers as well so they haven't got the automatic aggression that they have to taxi drivers. This is also not taking away the fact that ubers, from what stalkerbook commenters have written are generally more respectful of the pax needs. The poor good taxi driver (they're out there) are at an immediate disadvantage because of the poor ones. Even the good indian ones ( they're out there too believe it or not ) have it even worse.
 

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Been a lurker here for a while.
I'm going to start with full disclosure. Am I a taxi driver? No but I am employed in a capacity where I service the taxi industry.
Do I have a vested interest in the outcome of a uber v taxi industry bun fight? Sort of. If i lose my job I can adapt and move on.
I might not even be welcome here and so be it. This is a forum for uber drivers and i understand that. Most of you maybthink that I'm a licence holder and am here to spy. Well i can assure you that I am not a licence holder. I'm not going to spit diatribes like other taxi drivers on here I'm just looking to have a bit of a discussion in regards to the whole industry.

Like I said I'm a long time lurker and it is clear there are some extremely intelligent people on here who are making a good go at uber, and lets be honest this has been the most affordable way to start your own business and work for yourself.

How would I personally like to see this party out you ask? (You didn't ask)
I love to see both survive. I've seen by the posts in regards to GST implementation that the vast majority of you guys just want to earn a living, pay your taxes and go home when you knock off. This is everyone's basic right. (Well right to even have to pay taxes but that's a complete different story. Watch zeitgeist. Specifically the part about the American federal reserve).
Uber is here to stay. FACT. Taxis want an even playing field. FACT. Imagine if by some miracle the government somehow managed to buy back taxi licenses and deregulated the industry to a certain extent. Not completely because there is not a industry in the world that can self regulate without screwing either the consumer of the worker. Uber would go up a bit making it possible for drivers to make a decent living. Taxis would come down so that they coukd make a decent living also. And the undesirable taxi drivers will have to lift their game. Trust me the taxi companies are now aware that this is a major driving force of ubers success. If the government is stepping in then they may as well sort cabcharge's 10% fee because this is killing us. I mean seriously, how can they still be allowed to do this.
There are plenty of people who for one reason or another can't do many other jobs. Taxis give them an opportunity for employment when they can't afford a uber car.

This is a difficult industry. I've been around it 13 years and I know many mum and dad licence owners who have worked ridiculously hard over the years get where they are.

Like I said if I'm not welcome here I'll get my bat and ball and head home. I'm open for criticism. Won't bite or spew nonsensical arguments like drivers who are on here. Want to see us all get along and not end with an American like economy where we get screwed while a corporation fists us while using our tears for lube. Because if uber get the monopoly, in a few years the consumers will start getting screwed to. Don't even get me started on this country losing more home grown industry. I come from a line of farmers and have relatives stiill farming (buy dairy farmers milk)
Fair post mate. I think there is room for both. I personally don't want to see the demise of the taxi companies, or people loose their jobs, but nor do I think they should have the monopoly. The industry is moving with the times and the next generation. Look at record shops, book shops etc. As Darwin said those who adapt survive.
Whilst I appreciate people have invested in taxi plates, I don't think the argument of its not fair is 'fair' - it's an investment. If i invest in BHP shares and the iron or price drops, do I get my money back?no. It's risk and reward.

I don't think uber will take over, there are plenty of other ride share apps to keep it competitive. Can uber and taxis coexist, yes.
 

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If uber is not a taxi service and they want their own class of "rideshare" what other ridesharing apps keep uber competative?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Fair post mate. I think there is room for both. I personally don't want to see the demise of the taxi companies, or people loose their jobs, but nor do I think they should have the monopoly. The industry is moving with the times and the next generation. Look at record shops, book shops etc. As Darwin said those who adapt survive.
Whilst I appreciate people have invested in taxi plates, I don't think the argument of its not fair is 'fair' - it's an investment. If i invest in BHP shares and the iron or price drops, do I get my money back?no. It's risk and reward.

I don't think uber will take over, there are plenty of other ride share apps to keep it competitive. Can uber and taxis coexist, yes.
I agree with your investment example. Does make sense
 

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Whilst I appreciate people have invested in taxi plates, I don't think the argument of its not fair is 'fair' - it's an investment. If i invest in BHP shares and the iron or price drops, do I get my money back?no. It's risk and reward.
Your comparison is not correct I believe. Taxi plates were issued by the government as a "right to ferry paying passengers" similarly government issues mining companies "rights to mine".

Once the government has given such rights to a mining company they can't then just give the same rights to mine the same piece of land to any other company.

So how can government do it with taxi plates?
 

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The comparison to book shops and record stores has always bothered me for the following reason - the end product was the same, only the delivery method changed - ie as a e-book or as a iTunes purchase etc...
In the ground transport game the disruption should have been at the key problem / control area ( product delivery system ) - the taxi despatch companies, as these are the guys who control the avail technologies / controlled the driver standards (or lack of), inc. English profiency , controlled ongoing vehicle standards , and the customer interaction with their call centres - they missed the app boat completely or came in late with an app the only connected to their ancient call centres !! This is where the focus of te disruption should be - apps like GoCatch have focussed entirely on this .
Uber decides it can also reinvent the ground transportation industry and combine booking delivery with a new fleet of owner / drivers, which they then exploit (far worse than te taxi companies ever did !! ) (can anyone ever remember taxi fares going DOWN even once ?? Let alone 3 times ?? And when GST came in 2001 fares went up 10% on the first day ! ) they have used their term of disruption to play on the over exaggerated generalisations and virtually drop all compliance to getting started in the industry - the problem being many of the compliance issues were 100% safety related but they don't care because they have moved all risk to us as the drivers !
It is to the point now that uber drivers carry more of the expenses / accept more of the risk / and earn a lot less than taxi drivers - and yet keep driving for uber And sprouting the digital disruption dream ??!! This is not how it was meant to be surely ?
Is there not something intrinsically wrong with a platform or business model that relies so strongly on continually recruiting new people as drivers to the system to replace the ones leaving at such a great rate ?? If it was really so good no-one would leave at all , but hasn't the last 4 weeks during the GsT debacle really shown us where their priorities are ?
The taxi companies are very guilty of undervaluing and taking for granted not only the travelling public but also their drivers and operators .... And currently there doesn't seem to be any change ... An App primarily gets around the logjam area of the call centres and allows passengers to communicate directly with a driver in their area rather than someone in a call centre office in Perth who has never been to Brisbane let alone the Triffid!!!

Sorry - big rant everyone ...
 

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Been a lurker here for a while.
I'm going to start with full disclosure. Am I a taxi driver? No but I am employed in a capacity where I service the taxi industry.
Do I have a vested interest in the outcome of a uber v taxi industry bun fight? Sort of. If i lose my job I can adapt and move on.
I might not even be welcome here and so be it. This is a forum for uber drivers and i understand that. Most of you maybthink that I'm a licence holder and am here to spy. Well i can assure you that I am not a licence holder. I'm not going to spit diatribes like other taxi drivers on here I'm just looking to have a bit of a discussion in regards to the whole industry.

Like I said I'm a long time lurker and it is clear there are some extremely intelligent people on here who are making a good go at uber, and lets be honest this has been the most affordable way to start your own business and work for yourself.

How would I personally like to see this party out you ask? (You didn't ask)
I love to see both survive. I've seen by the posts in regards to GST implementation that the vast majority of you guys just want to earn a living, pay your taxes and go home when you knock off. This is everyone's basic right. (Well right to even have to pay taxes but that's a complete different story. Watch zeitgeist. Specifically the part about the American federal reserve).
Uber is here to stay. FACT. Taxis want an even playing field. FACT. Imagine if by some miracle the government somehow managed to buy back taxi licenses and deregulated the industry to a certain extent. Not completely because there is not a industry in the world that can self regulate without screwing either the consumer of the worker. Uber would go up a bit making it possible for drivers to make a decent living. Taxis would come down so that they coukd make a decent living also. And the undesirable taxi drivers will have to lift their game. Trust me the taxi companies are now aware that this is a major driving force of ubers success. If the government is stepping in then they may as well sort cabcharge's 10% fee because this is killing us. I mean seriously, how can they still be allowed to do this.
There are plenty of people who for one reason or another can't do many other jobs. Taxis give them an opportunity for employment when they can't afford a uber car.

This is a difficult industry. I've been around it 13 years and I know many mum and dad licence owners who have worked ridiculously hard over the years get where they are.

Like I said if I'm not welcome here I'll get my bat and ball and head home. I'm open for criticism. Won't bite or spew nonsensical arguments like drivers who are on here. Want to see us all get along and not end with an American like economy where we get screwed while a corporation fists us while using our tears for lube. Because if uber get the monopoly, in a few years the consumers will start getting screwed to. Don't even get me started on this country losing more home grown industry. I come from a line of farmers and have relatives stiill farming (buy dairy farmers milk)
I second Instyle 's welcome! Thanks for coming onboard
 

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Your comparison is not correct I believe. Taxi plates were issued by the government as a "right to ferry paying passengers" similarly government issues mining companies "rights to mine".

Once the government has given such rights to a mining company they can't then just give the same rights to mine the same piece of land to any other company.

So how can government do it with taxi plates?
Well we could sit and debate comparisons all day. An investment is an investment, know the risk v the reward. You're telling me that the industry didn't see ride sharing coming? Arrogance or ignorance, either will loose you money.
 

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Your comparison is not correct I believe. Taxi plates were issued by the government as a "right to ferry paying passengers" similarly government issues mining companies "rights to mine".

Once the government has given such rights to a mining company they can't then just give the same rights to mine the same piece of land to any other company.

So how can government do it with taxi plates?
The comparison is completely fair, the government did not charge TSL plate holders $500 000 for the plate, the plate was bought at xxxx dollar value and taxi operators bought and sold the plate over the years with the view that they could never lose because it was a government protected monopoly. Nothing lasts forever and this argument has gone since the forum began, by continuing to allow taxi companies and cabcharge this monoploy and because it is a monopoly it has been sponsored by the tax payer. Fish Head and others have argued the other way and as usual it makes no sense, Uber is free market(however disgusting) and taxi companies are the ones sponsored/supported by the average Aussie consumer because having a monopoly means you can charge whatever you want(government controls this) and provide the worst service without fear of a competitor taking your market away from you because of this terrible service. Then we come to the bit again about the INVESTMENT, taxi operators bid the price up to this level, when you make an INVESTMENT you assume that you may win or that you may lose. If you or others bought taxi plates without assuming you could lose that is poor judgement on your part, it is not up to government to cover your ass because you made a poor INVESTMENT decision.
In case you missed the point, INVESTMENT is not a guaranteed sure fire thing it always comes with risk, if you ignore risk or make no allowance for loss, well tough.
Here endeth the sermon.
 

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@LCC...

Nobody and i mean nobody is more consistently wrong on this forum than your dumb arse... the government under Anna Bligh released 150 taxi licences 5 years ago and raised 75 million dollars for the State of Queensland. You do the math. In fact taxi license prices have risen like any indexed asset over time. 20 years ago the average plate was worth 200,000 dollars which equated to the price of the average house much like the current 500,000 price does.

Taxi Plates have NEVER been a "protected monopoly" since the meter prices have/are being set by the government, taking into account running cost. They compete with buses, trains and ferries and even each other... you're just repeating the UBER mantra for anti-competiveness. You make me laugh so much especially since you complain that you can't make a proper living on 1.30 a kilometre without so much as paying the relevant insurance cost and registration and running costs. Wouldn't you say lol.

UBER has NEVER been a free market and never will by account of the fact that they're not accountable to anyone or any rules... in other words they're a power onto them selves. Now imagine the post apocalyptic waste land of a UBER victory against the taxi industry. The might of this behemoth would pretty much mean they would dominate the market and would charge the public what they wanted (talking about 4-5 dollars a kilometre) but also charge the drivers whatever commission they wanted. Hell they could charge 50% - 70% without any taxi industry or any government defending the public's interests.

Truly LeadCuresCancer you are the forum dingus
 

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Well we could sit and debate comparisons all day. An investment is an investment, know the risk v the reward. You're telling me that the industry didn't see ride sharing coming? Arrogance or ignorance, either will loose you money.
An investment is not an investment when regulated and controlled by the government. By issuing the taxi licenses they created property rights , just like they do in the mining industry.

There are only two things really the government will do from here on.

1. Government deregulates the taxi industry causing taxi plates to loose all their value, which will see the government sued and a precedent is already set in Australia where the government had to compensate the taxi plate holders. (please research NT deregulation following is an exert from the lengthy report about the same, it also outlines what happened after deregulation and government re-regulated the industry)

"Under these regulations the amount of compensation to be paid for a taxi licence in
the Tennent Creek taxi area was the amount last paid for the transfer of a taxi licence
in the Tennant Creek taxi area escalated by the average percentage increase in taxi
licences in the Darwin and Alice Springs taxi areas since the date of the transfer until
28 February 1998. The same determination was made in the case of the Gove taxi
area.
In the case of multiple purpose taxis (wheelchair accessible taxis) operating in the
Alice Springs area the amount of compensation to be paid for a cancelled taxi licence
was determined as the amount last paid for the transfer of a multiple purpose taxi
licence adjusted to reflect changes in the Consumer Price Index for the period since
the date of the transfer until 28 February 1998.
The amount of compensation paid for a cancelled taxi licence (other than those
referred to above) was determined as the amount paid at the last tender for the
purchase of a taxi licence in respect of the same class of taxi to which the cancelled
licence related, operated in the same taxi area as the taxi to which the cancelled taxi
licence related, and adjusted to reflect changes in the Consumer Price Index during
the period since the date of the tender until 28 February 1998.
Three taxi operators issued a Supreme Court challenge to the amount of compensation
under the taxi-plate buy back scheme, claiming they were not adequately
compensated for their plates when the industry was deregulated. The judgement (9
November 2000) ruled in favour of the taxi drivers. It stated that the buy-back
scheme was an acquisition under law, requiring just compensation and that the
Transport Minister unlawfully delegated the calculation of compensation to a public
servant when it was his responsibility.
In summary the new legislation, which came into effect on 1 January 1999, abolished
taxi licence ownership and provided for the payment of compensation to the existing
taxi holders. Taxis, minibuses and private hire cars were required to pay an annual
licence fee and there were no maximum limits imposed on the issuing of licences in
any category. The cost of the compensation was to be repaid from revenue obtained
from the implementation of an annual licence fee.
"

2. Government relaxes regulations on taxi industry. Like they stop charging every taxi 6-10k in rego per year, compulsory affiliation with a taxi network costing 10k per year, remove restrictions on the age of the car allowec as taxi approx cost 4k a year.

While at the same time regulate uberx vehicles to carry commercial insurance, implementation of cameras in the cars for the purposes of evidence in court , where either passenger or driver alleges an assault etc.

In any of the two cases above a level playing field will be created which will the greatest thing for consumers and drivers alike.
 

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leadcurescancer please see my response above and tell me if there is flaw in the argument I present.

Please do realize I do not own a taxi license. I do drive a taxi. Been doing it for the best part of 7-8 years.

Please also don't ramble about free markets to me. Reading your post about TPP I am aware that you realize there is NO free market in the real world. Free market is a figment of imagination of economists that only exists in their text books :)
 

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leadcurescancer please see my response above and tell me if there is flaw in the argument I present.

Please do realize I do not own a taxi license. I do drive a taxi. Been doing it for the best part of 7-8 years.

Please also don't ramble about free markets to me. Reading your post about TPP I am aware that you realize there is NO free market in the real world. Free market is a figment of imagination of economists that only exists in their text books :)
Your point about investment is wrong, the dictionary and every business text book I ever read disagrees with you.
About free markets, it depends on what market you are in of course, some are free others will get you an early grave and the rest somewhere in between.
I wasn't aware NT had gone down that path, if we see any form of increased cost to drivers in Uber by government regulations their business model will collapse and that will be the end of it here in Australia and nothing would make me happier. This is why Uber has fought the government so hard and it's why so many drivers have left since the 10% cut and GST came in, with Uber taking 20% and us footing the whole GST it is not viable for most. I have suggested many times a system that would work as have others but a new system will really only survive if the taxis are owner operators and ride share platform owners take less. The government cash grab will be monthly and on top of the fare, all owner operators will have to guarantee availability somehow and this is where it becomes very tough to solve. It is the need to have a point to point for those who really need it and so many remote locations that makes reform so hard.
I know ride sharing is here to stay but am unsure what will happen in the short to medium term. Long term is easy.;)
 

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Nobody and i mean nobody is more consistently wrong on this forum than your dumb arse... the government under Anna Bligh released 150 taxi licences 5 years ago and raised 75 million dollars for the State of Queensland. You do the math. In fact taxi license prices have risen like any indexed asset over time. 20 years ago the average plate was worth 200,000 dollars which equated to the price of the average house much like the current 500,000 price does.
Oh go on fish head find all my posts where I have been wrong, I told you from the start the politicians were not going to stop Uber and now we have the Premier come out and say as much and so much more lol.
But here you pick out that Qld sold another 150 taxi plates 5 years ago, I am unsure wtf you are trying to say, that just 150 taxi plates sold at $500k each(I will accept your figures), what about all the others(thousands?) that sold many many years before that? Once again you argue what? The average maybe just $50 000 across the whole industry, probably much less I bet.
Taxi Plates have NEVER been a "protected monopoly" since the meter prices have/are being set by the government, taking into account running cost. They compete with buses, trains and ferries and even each other... you're just repeating the UBER mantra for anti-competiveness. You make me laugh so much especially since you complain that you can't make a proper living on 1.30 a kilometre without so much as paying the relevant insurance cost and registration and running costs. Wouldn't you say lol.
Taxis are the very definition of a monopoly,
Monopoly definition. noun the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.
I can't believe you posted such garbage. I do not see Uber say anything about closing any competition down? Am I wrong?
1 Taxis do not compete with buses as buses are a form of mass transport that run on defined routes at defined times.
2 Taxis do not compete with trains as trains are a form of mass transport that run on defined routes at defined times.
3. Taxis do not compete with Ferries, well ferries are a form of water transport, you know they float, taxis don't float.
4. Taxis are point to point on demand transport services.
5. Taxis do not compete with other taxis, have you ever tried to jump into a taxi down the queue, I have and I know other people who have, they will not take you. A driver will tell you to go to the front, ergo taxis do not compete with other taxis.

UBER has NEVER been a free market and never will by account of the fact that they're not accountable to anyone or any rules... in other words they're a power onto them selves. Now imagine the post apocalyptic waste land of a UBER victory against the taxi industry. The might of this behemoth would pretty much mean they would dominate the market and would charge the public what they wanted (talking about 4-5 dollars a kilometre) but also charge the drivers whatever commission they wanted. Hell they could charge 50% - 70% without any taxi industry or any government defending the public's interests.
Uber is the definition of a free market, here I will post it for you.
A free market is a market system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between vendors and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority.
So this definition torpedoes all the rubbish you wrote about taxis not being a monopoly also. What will happen if taxis disappear, something else will come in it's place, Lyft and who knows how many others wait in the wings.
Seriously dude, I have been dealing with people smarter and better at this than you are for nearly 20 years, this is an Uber forum go and play somewhere else. There are people here with opinions different to mine in many ways but none so obnoxious and none so unashamedly selfish as yours.
 
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