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A fellow UBER X driver 3 weeks ago was involved in accident. He was at fault and wrote off his car and another car. Gave other party his insurance details. When he went to claim with his insurance they denied his claim. They had done a search and found he had been issued 3 infringement notices by TMR for offering an illegal taxi service, no taxi licence, no operator accreditation. As he was operating an illegal taxi service (UBER ride share) they denied his claim since he was operating a commercial business with his car. They told him even if he did not have anybody in the car and was not on an UBER job he would still be denied the claim as he had lied to the insurance company about his illegal activities. Waiting to see if UBER will pay for the 2 cars and the legal claims by the customers and the other passengers in the other car. To me it's clear get caught and your insurance will check and deny your claim.
Um,
I know this was from four months back (way before I joined UberPeople), but what was the outcome on this one? Anyone know?
.
 

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I asked Uber to provide me with the PDS or equivalent for their insurance, which they refused. The refusal was wrapped in a bunch of "warm and fuzzy" assurances about how uber will support their drivers.

At the end of the day it came down to a risk decision on my part (as with each driver individually). I decided that I had heard of plenty of drivers who have had fines paid (a promise that is equally offered in a "warm and fuzzy" way). I hadn't heard of anyone having issues with insurance either (and was pretty sure that it would have made the media in a big way)

My car is registered in my business name and my comprehensive is for business use. I spoke to my insurer who said I was covered if it wasn't a full-time gig. The CSR knew all about Uber and didn't hesitate or have to look up anything before she answered.

Just my 2c worth: everyone's experience will vary
 

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Um,
I know this was from four months back (way before I joined UberPeople), but what was the outcome on this one? Anyone know?
.
I recall a follow up in a Brisbane thread (or whether it was another one) driver had policy cancelled after an accident not while on an uber trip and was ultimately responsible for both cars financially.
 

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Thank you so much for posting this chi1cabby.

If you read only one thing on this forum READ THIS THREAD
This is the issue that is of the highest concern to all UberX drivers. If it is not, it should be.

On the legal side, what if you hit injured/maim/kill a pedestrian/Pax/child Pax - and there are many drivers that carry children illegally.
This is of the greatest concern, cars are cars after all, they are not a human life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
Transportation Providers Service Agreement for Australian UberX Drivers https://www.dropbox.com/s/voea7ngp2fyl5ed/Transportation Provider Service Agreement-4.pdf?dl=0

Insurance

Vehicle Insurance. As an express condition of doing business with the Company, and at your sole expense, you agree to maintain current during the life of this Agreement, third-party auto insurance of the types and amounts specified herein for every vehicle used to perform services under this Agreement. You acknowledge that it is your responsibility, prior to your commencement of the P2P transportation service, to:
A) inform your insurer of the P2P transportation service you provide; and B) ensure that your insurance policy provides coverage for the P2P transportation service you provide.
If you have any questions or concerns about the scope or applicability of your insurance coverage, it is your responsibility, not the Company's, to resolve them. You acknowledge that failure to secure or maintain satisfactory insurance coverage shall be deemed a material breach of this Agreement and shall result in the immediate suspension of the Agreement and the loss of your right to receive Requests under this Agreement.
i. Coverage Specifications. To perform services under this Agreement, you must maintain automobile insurance with coverage of at least the minimum coverage required by national, state or local law.
ii. Notification of Coverage. You agree to provide proof of such insurance coverage by delivering to the Company, before your equipment performs services under this Agreement, current certificates of insurance. To ensure public safety, you further agree to provide updated certificates each time you purchase, renew or alter your insurance coverage. Furthermore, you must provide the Company with written notice at least thirty (30) days prior to cancellation of any insurance policy required by the Company. The Company shall have no right to control your selection or maintenance of your policy.

Font Material property Screenshot Document Number
 

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Transportation Providers Service Agreement for Australian UberX Drivers https://www.dropbox.com/s/voea7ngp2fyl5ed/Transportation Provider Service Agreement-4.pdf?dl=0

Insurance

Vehicle Insurance. As an express condition of doing business with the Company, and at your sole expense, you agree to maintain current during the life of this Agreement, third-party auto insurance of the types and amounts specified herein for every vehicle used to perform services under this Agreement. You acknowledge that it is your responsibility, prior to your commencement of the P2P transportation service, to:
A) inform your insurer of the P2P transportation service you provide; and B) ensure that your insurance policy provides coverage for the P2P transportation service you provide.
If you have any questions or concerns about the scope or applicability of your insurance coverage, it is your responsibility, not the Company's, to resolve them. You acknowledge that failure to secure or maintain satisfactory insurance coverage shall be deemed a material breach of this Agreement and shall result in the immediate suspension of the Agreement and the loss of your right to receive Requests under this Agreement.
i. Coverage Specifications. To perform services under this Agreement, you must maintain automobile insurance with coverage of at least the minimum coverage required by national, state or local law.
ii. Notification of Coverage. You agree to provide proof of such insurance coverage by delivering to the Company, before your equipment performs services under this Agreement, current certificates of insurance. To ensure public safety, you further agree to provide updated certificates each time you purchase, renew or alter your insurance coverage. Furthermore, you must provide the Company with written notice at least thirty (30) days prior to cancellation of any insurance policy required by the Company. The Company shall have no right to control your selection or maintenance of your policy.

View attachment 12953
As always thank you chi1cabby, you are a gem!!

Why are Uber NOT informing drivers of the above on sign up?
Why are Uber accepting our private comprehensive insurance as suitable and required?
Why are Uber deceiving Uber X drivers that they are covered with their existing insurance, and that Uber will be covering drivers with their existing "Global Insurance Policy" when both will be null and void ?
Why are Uber hiding these facts from the drivers?

In fact as I read it we are not covered - either from our insurance or Ubers.
Drivers are being hung out to dry.

This means that the vast MAJORITY of Uber X vehicles should be OFF the road.
 

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Excellent post chi1cabby, I hope viewers of the new Adelaide forum are provided with the same information. Now is the time when Uber Adelaide will seek to recruit drivers. They deserve to be warned of how Uber operates.

Paragraph 4 of the document states "You are an independent transportation provider who offers rideshare or P2P transportation services, which business you are authorized to conduct in the state(s) in which you operate."

As of today, there is no state or territory in Australia where driving for uberX is a legal activity. Drivers on the system in Australia are operating an illegal taxi service. Illegal activities are not 'authorised', they are in fact prohibited.

Drivers, read your documentation. You are putting yourself at extreme risk, for little return. Review your Transportation Provider Service Agreement, then seek legal advice. If you are unsure of anything, stop driving. The risks that you and all uberX drivers take are just too great. Uber are not to be trusted.

Wake up Australia.
 

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After much pointless discussion on the earlier thread that was hijacked by a couple soreheads who think they know a whole lot more than they actually do, I am opening this new thread as a place to have a productive conversation on a well-researched, intelligently presented subject that we all should be concerned with. If you feel the need to insult, name-call, ridicule, jibe, nettle, cajole, or bullyrag, please login to the CNN forums and work through your demons there.
We have been told by a very vocal, very ill-informed minority that using the names of actual living human beings may be bad form on public forums like this one and that we should always use a nomme de plume. Therefore, let us accept that I had a wonderful conversation this morning with Mr. Chris Boedeker. Mr. Boedekeris the Senior Claims Manager at Uber.

Answered 1/5/2016 by Chris Boedeker, Senior Claims Manager at Uber. Telephone conversation with [Desert Driver]

Scenario
An Uber driver has a passenger in his car and is on a trip with the meter running. The Uber driver does NOT have commercial auto insurance and he is violating the livery business exclusion of his personal automobile policy by driving for Uber. The Uber driver then gets into an accident that is his fault. His car is severely damaged, the car he hit is severely damaged. Both the Uber driver and the Uber passenger are injured, as is the driver of the other car. Referring to the graphic on the Uber insurance page, this scenario takes place entirely in Period 3. See graphic at http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance

Questions:
1) Who pays for the Uber driver's and Uber passenger's medical care?
Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy will cover the injured Uber passenger. The Uber driver's medical claim will not be covered by Uber's Rasier insurance liability or collision policy. And since the driver does not have a commercial insurance policy of any sort on his/her automobile, the Uber driver's personal automobile policy will not be applicable here either as the Uber driver is violating the livery exclusion of his/her personal automobile insurance policy. In the event that an Uber driver is injured in a crash that is his/her fault while driving for Uber with a passenger in the car, the only medical insurance coverage that applies in this scenario is the driver's health insurance coverage. If the driver has no healthcare insurance coverage, which is a violation of the Affordable Care Act, the driver will be responsible for his/her medical expenses out-of-pocket.

2) Who pays for the other driver's medical care?
The Uber Rasier liability insurance policy is the primary insurer, so the driver of the other car and his/her passengers will make his/her medical claim against Uber. The Uber driver's personal policy will not be employed to cover the medical claims of the not-at-fault driver and the occupants of that driver's automobile.

3) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?
Uber expects the driver to first make the property claim against his/her personal automobile policy. Uber understands that most personal automobile insurance carriers will deny the claim. Uber also understands that many personal automobile insurance carriers will cancel the policy in this scenario. After the driver's personal automobile insurance carrier denies the claim, Uber's contingent collision coverage will cover the property claim with a $1000 deductible.

Although Uber is aware that most drivers will likely have their personal automobile policy canceled in this scenario, Uber is not currently offering to assist drivers find other automobile insurance coverage.

4) Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
Uber's Rasier liability insurance policy does.

As we wound up our conversation, we agreed on some simple best practices until the automobile insurance industry figures out how to insure TNC drivers.
  • Be really careful out there.
  • Don't even think about driving for a TNC if you do not have adequate healthcare insurance. (Remember, failing to carry healthcare insurance on yourself is a violation of the ACA.)
  • Check your insurance policy and make sure you understand whether or not your policy has a livery exclusion.
  • Don't volunteer to your automobile insurance carrier that you are driving for a TNC. However, if your insurance carrier asks if you are driving for a TNC, you better be honest, even if it means having your policy canceled.
  • If all you carry is liability insurance on your automobile, don't even think about driving for Uber. Uber will NOT extend collision and comprehensive to your automobile if you do not carry collision and comprehensive on your personal policy.
  • At the rate TNCs are gaining popularity, the automobile insurance industry is going to have to figure this out sooner as opposed to later. Keep abreast of news and developments in the automobile insurance arena
  • Never pick up a rogue fare. Doing so means you have ZERO insurance coverage anywhere.
  • Do not end the trip until all passengers and their belongings are out of your car and all doors are closed and locked.
I hope you find this information as helpful and informative as I did. I have to say I was pleased and impressed when Mr. Boedeker rang me up on my cell phone in response to the questions I posed on the Uber support E-mail page. Mr. Boedeker was friendly, professional, articulate, and a genuinely pleasant man. I would rate my interaction with him five stars.
This has come from the UP US Forum and is very relevant to Australian Uber X drivers as well.

These are basic questions that you should be asking yourself and seeking comprehensive answers from Uber Australia re Uber X Insurance.

Uber X Driver at fault accident

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?

Uber X Driver NOT at fault accident

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?

Uber X Driver carrying unaccompanied minor (under 18 years) or child not restrained in approved car seat - involved in ANY accident

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the Uber driver's car?

Who pays for the repairs or replacement of the other driver's car?
 

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I asked Uber to provide me with the PDS or equivalent for their insurance, which they refused. The refusal was wrapped in a bunch of "warm and fuzzy" assurances about how uber will support their drivers.

At the end of the day it came down to a risk decision on my part (as with each driver individually). I decided that I had heard of plenty of drivers who have had fines paid (a promise that is equally offered in a "warm and fuzzy" way). I hadn't heard of anyone having issues with insurance either (and was pretty sure that it would have made the media in a big way)

My car is registered in my business name and my comprehensive is for business use. I spoke to my insurer who said I was covered if it wasn't a full-time gig. The CSR knew all about Uber and didn't hesitate or have to look up anything before she answered.

Just my 2c worth: everyone's experience will vary
Sorry for the late involvement. I don't think the Insurance CSR that you dealt with actually read YOUR current comprehensive PDS or understood that UBERX is STILL classified as an ILLEGAL Public Vehicle/Taxi service.

ALL Car Insurance (and most property and personal insurances) will NOT pay a claim if the activity you were involved at the time of an accident was illegal.

Driving over .05 is illegal, have an accident - claim denied

Driving a car without the permission of the owner - Insurance Co will pay owner but come after the unauthorised driver

House burns down after Meth Lab explosion - claim denied

It's real simple - until UBERX is deemed legal by the various Transport Jurisdications then Insurance companies will ENCOURAGE UBERX drivers to disclose what they are doing, take their premiums then DENY any claims because of the illegal activity!!

The catch is that "Rideshare" IS legal, and if the trip you were on was a genuine Rideshare trip then all is cool. The Insurance Co's will fall back on the ATO definition of UBERX as a Taxi Service and all State Transport departments classifying UBERX as illegal.
 

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Should Uber be prosecuted for massive insurance fraud? Interesting take on the insurance issue.

Uber approves the insurance documents for hundreds of thousands of drivers in the US and activates their Uber account so that they can do commercial livery transport which directly violates the provisions of almost 100%, if not exactly 100% of the personal insurance policies out there. By definition this is insurance fraud.

Drivers, either through ignorance of the livery exclusion or due to not wanting to be cancelled or having a claim go unpaid, do not notify their insurance carriers in over 90% of the cases. This constitutes insurance fraud on the part of the driver, especially in the case of an accident during period 1 where the driver is hoping to be covered by the personal insurance policy for everything, or in the case of California for his or her collision and bodily injury costs.

My question is, who is more complicit in the crime of insurance fraud? Uber, who unleashes the floodgates on all these underinsured/non-commercially insured drivers or the drivers themselves who are at worst put in a position of self-preservation of assets, with no warnings or guidance on the insurance issue from Uber.

My contention is that Uber is more complicit since they are they one behind the entire massive collective fraud movement, and they are in a position to know more than any other entity in the fraud chain what is going on and they do it anyway in order to maximize profit and growth. They know exactly what they are doing but when questioned by drivers or the media they play dumb and sidestep the issue with vague untruths.

So, my question is, shouldn't Uber be prosecuted for massive insurance fraud? Wouldn't that be an even bigger case than the IC case?
 

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Thelma & Louise (T&L) Very good points. Many, not all, potential drivers are not aware of the exclusion of vehicles-for-hire (pizza delivery, newspaper delivery, rideshare). Not are drivers made aware that personal insurance could cancel them and blacklist them for future auto insurance policies.

I think "failure to make full disclosure" to applicants could be applied.

DISCLAIMER: This poster is not a lawyer.
 

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Thelma & Louise (T&L) . . . Take a look at your Agreement. If I am correct, it is dated May 2014. The one used here in the US is dated November 2014.

Question: Why does Uber use two different agreements?

Compare your agreement to the one in the US.

https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/country/united_states/p2p/Partner Agreement November 10 2014.pdf

We have to agree to this agreement before Uber will give us the online application if memory serves me. Insurance information is in the agreement. How many people actually read Terms and Conditions? How many remember what the agreement says?
 

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This is a very good thread.... any more developments on this from you experts?

Also the driver in Brisbane who was involved in an accident and got refused insurance by both his private insurer and Uber, what happened?

Surprised this was not on the news? Did Uber pay them off?
 

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Simple translation

To Public
"Don't worry about your driver Joe public. we have you Covered when your drivers insurance policy won't cover you"

To Driver

"Too bad you got into an accident, we can't help you out. Let us know when we can get our phone back"

Same as the Canadian Market
This just happened to me.
Went in after my insurance denied my claim and threw me under the bus...
Uber, at least you weren't hurt but we cant help you, next...Get home and see they've deactivated me as well, nice touch.
Now i cant work, cant get the car repaired , and cant get new insurance due to my old insurer denying my claim.

Thanks to the prick who ran the red light and cleaned me up on Hoddle and Wellington...Love you mate

Thanks to Ai Insurance for cancelling my policy mid claim and then declining the claim altogether cause i am a Uber driver part time. When i started the policy in May i wasn't an Uber driver, Uber however accepted the policy when signing up.

Thanks to Uber, Love you all long time...

Thanks to all the insurance companies who now wont touch me due to the fact i was going through a green light after work and was the victim of a red light hit and runner who is at home laughing about it most likely.

Regards...
 

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This just happened to me.
Went in after my insurance denied my claim and threw me under the bus...
Uber, at least you weren't hurt but we cant help you, next...Get home and see they've deactivated me as well, nice touch.
Now i cant work, cant get the car repaired , and cant get new insurance due to my old insurer denying my claim.

Thanks to the prick who ran the red light and cleaned me up on Hoddle and Wellington...Love you mate

Thanks to Ai Insurance for cancelling my policy mid claim and then declining the claim altogether cause i am a Uber driver part time. When i started the policy in May i wasn't an Uber driver, Uber however accepted the policy when signing up.

Thanks to Uber, Love you all long time...

Thanks to all the insurance companies who now wont touch me due to the fact i was going through a green light after work and was the victim of a red light hit and runner who is at home laughing about it most likely.

Regards...
That's terrible news. It's always been my understanding that if there is not FULL disclosure at the time of the policy is struck, then the Insurance company has a myriad of fine print clauses to deny claims.

You don't have to be logged on, you don't have to be on a job. Just having your car registered as a UBERX/ Commercial /Private Hire/Business Use - Special Occassion Hire (wedding cars) will Be usage that a car is not covered for. The car is in a different usage pool, each increasing its exposure to risk, therefore the insurance companies demand higher premiums.

Insurance companies have direct access to Transport/RMS databases. When CTP car insurance was deregulated here in NSW, companies jumped in to these new markets. But still pay a yearly licence fee to the State Govt, with access to rego and traffic breaches information once a claim is made. The State Govt helps lower their risk against fraud or incorrectly insured vehicles.
 

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The Insurance issue has always been dodgy, and in my opinion, Uber's requirements fall far short of real world requirements.

Its well know that they will accept car insurance documents that become invalid the moment you start driving for Uber, for example.

Before I started Ubering, a friend who was an Uber driver warned me about this. He was side swiped by a turning bus. His insurance company denied the claim because it happened when he was Ubering, and he was too honest with them.

His advice to me was to get NRMA insurance, which I did, informing them I would be Uber driving. After a year when the NRMA renewal was due, they didn't want to reinsure me, because my Ubering was deemed to be more than part time......

Now I am signed up with Allianz, and am paying roughly double what I was before I started Ubering, but at least MY CAR is insured.

So what about non-car insurance issues?

My CTP is still with the NRMA. I have thousands of misgivings about the CTP, because it won't cover certain circumstances, like for example if the car is not moving, or (probably) if it was a wet Wednesday. I'm sure if I ever made a claim against it, it would start some kind of legal shit fight. I honestly have no idea what the limits of the CTP insurance are, but believe that the cover provided is probably inadequate.

I guess most of my fellow Uber drivers listen to commercial radio stations at some stage during the day. Have you noticed that between 25 to 30% of the advertisers are lawyers fishing for compo clients? Those lawyers must make a shit load of money to be able to advertise so much. Guess where that money comes from? Claims against the likes of you and me and our CTP insurance if we were unlucky enough to be involved in a major accident.

Do I think that Uber's product and public liability insurance would cover me for extra costs beyond what the CTP would cover? Frankly, no. That insurance is there to protect Uber, and not it's independent contractors. Again, I think if a claim were made, they would lawyer up and wriggle away.

I run my Ubering through a company, which in itself gives me some protection. If a major claim were to be made against me, I guess I could just fold the company.

I do have an extra public and product liability insurance, which costs me about $400 a year, so I do have some limited peace of mind in that area. I bet most Uber drivers wouldn't have that.

What I would like to see happen is that Uber should stop spreading false hopes and confusion on insurance issues, and maybe work with an insurance company, much in the same way it does with Caltex, to give Uber drivers good quality, good value, no bullshit insurance for the vehicle, CTP and all public and product liability insurance issues, that matches their real world requirements.
 
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