Uber Drivers Forum banner
41 - 60 of 81 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
737 Posts
Someone here once said, "Pukers are always your fault."

(Come to think of it, I think it was @PukersAreAlwaysYourFault ) 🤣

Bring a small trashcan--with a liner.
...and vomits all over the front of his shirt.

He looks up, eyes bleary and bloodshot and says, “My wife is gonna kill me, she told me not to drink so much.”

The bartender asks, “Do you have a twenty dollar bill?”

The guy responds, “Yeah, but how’s that gonna help me?”

Bartender says, “Take the twenty, fold it up, put it in your breast pocket, and when your wife sees you tell her someone puked on you and gave you twenty bucks to pay for the dry cleaning.”

The guy thinks it’s genius and gets himself prepared then stumbles home, as no rideshare driver will have him.

When his wife greets him as he enters she’s livid, but he calmly pulls the money out of his shirt pocket and says to her, “Don’t worry honey, it wasn’t me, I just had one or two, someone at the bar was having a bad night and threw up on me. He gave me twenty dollars for dry cleaning.”

His wife looks at the bills in his hand and says, “But that’s forty dollars...?”

The guy says, “Yeah well he shit in my pants too.”
I stand by that.

For life.

It will always apply.

P.S. Thank you for thinking of me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,178 Posts
Accept for tires there has to be SOME maintenance??
For a Tesla, it’s literally cabin air filter every 2 years, brake fluid inspection every 2 years, and AC desiccant bag changed every 3 years.

That’s it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Maintenance costs are pretty low, though they do exist. Tesla, in my opinion, hides these behind a smoke-and-mirrors "inspection" and "maintenance is on an as-needed basis" "policy" instead of being up front about actually needing to replace things as they wear, which is suspicious given it's more of a selling point in their favor than anything. Maybe it's because they don't want people thinking it's a car, rather "it's a Tesla"--but it's a car. A car that runs on batteries.

So let me be up front: The way I see it, Tesla wants to look at the car for the first five years of ownership and only those years. Not much has to be done, but like any car if you want it to last you do the necessary service to prolong the life of the vehicle. Tesla isn't alone in this, BMW and a few others have pulled some pretty questionable antics in my opinion, so let's lay a few things out in the open.

Being Tesla makes cars, tires need to be balanced and rotated. The difference here is Tesla has special tires due to the high weight of the vehicle, so that's a bit spendy, but expected.

As @Bork_Bork_Bork mentioned, the brake fluid needs to be "inspected," which actually means maintained, and that does mean changed periodically. Because of regenerative braking the brakes don't see lots of use, but the pads and fluids still need replacement as they are used.

Tesla likes to say "inspected" but let's face it, there's no Unicorn magic in there, so fluids and filters need replacement. That not only means the cabin air filter, but the air conditioning systems. The cabin has one, and the battery has its own cooling system, so both need maintenance.

While most people don't think of grease as a fluid, it needs to be changed like oil, since that's what grease contains. So all the pivot points need to be greased regularly.

Each gearbox needs the fluid changed out--yeah, they're filled with fluid only known to Tesla, and like any differential fluid the gearbox fluid needs changing, though not often. Still, it's a service point..

The heating systems (cabin and battery) are fluid driven, so there are hoses to inspect as heat causes them to out-gas and "dry-rot."

Then there's the unexpected stuff. The build quality isn't stellar, though pretty good. Things break, so one component may affect another unexpectedly. Tesla wrote a rather lengthy diagnostic log to a memory chip that wears it out, so that's $2,000 or so when it goes. They eventually did issue a recall on some vehicles when the government got involved for "safety issues," so that may be covered.

Door alignment can be an issue over time, especially if the hinge points aren't lubricated regularly. If they don't register at closed properly, good luck driving out of your garage.

The charging hatch has been known to fail, and in some cases shut down the car. Same with the hood latches, though that's a real pain to disassemble since they're also electronic release and burried inside the area they're protecting, so getting to them...uhg.

Some people had the rear bench seat wear out prematurely (8,000 miles), and OMg that's a spendy ordeal. I think they resolved that on newer models, but replacement can cost $5,000 with labor. I don't want to over-emphasize this one though because it seemed to be on a limited number of cars and was more of a manufacturing oddity than anything, though I do mention it because things like this are at least partly at the owner's expense from what I've seen. I'm sure someone will object to this being listed, but there's also things like the stitching sometimes letting go, though again not on a lot of cars.

The headlight lenses lose their UV glaze and haze up (I just saw this on a Tesla this morning). They're clear plastic covers, so this should be expected. It can be costly to fix unless you're really handy and can sand them down and re-coat them yourself.

There can be wiring and/or connector issues, though they're not common. More common is a poorly-made Chinese USB power adapter putting noise into the electrical system and taking down the car until removed (just unplug it). So this is more of a positive point than negative because the issues are infrequent and usually easily fixed. Tesla has loads of wiring, so this is more a testament to how good it is. The exception is flood damage or a collision causing an unexpected water ingress, then it's not so fun.

Hitting something or being hit (a collision) can result in a lot of expense and down-time. Tesla is a notoriously difficult brand to work on, and the corner garage can't do it. That leaves a few service centers that can, traveling Tesla mechanics, and shipping your car to a service center.

That huge display screen that runs everything. Yeah, you have to look at it because it's flat and there's no feeling for the button indent/outdent. And if it malfunctions you're screwed. If something is in a sub-menu it's difficult to access when driving. Until you get used to it, then you love it. Unless it breaks, or your kid breaks it, then it sucks elephant balls (meaning is a big-time inconvenience, according to the kid that broke one).

Batteries eventually need to be replaced. I only mention it because nobody wants to. Lithium batteries age, so even without use they'll lose capacity with time. If I buy an $80,000 Toyota=Lexus/Honda=Acura with preventative maintenance and conservative driving I can expect 500,000 miles of life (if they don't rust out first). The cost of Tesla lithium battery replacement may therefore be a consideration. Oh, lithium batteries won't save the world. "EV" sounds great, but it's really a lithium battery powered car and lithium is really, really bad for the environment.

They rust. Yup, they do. Inside, outside, underside, all sides. Until Elon makes them from recycled plastic straws they'll do that.

Oh, there's that charging station unavailability thing on holidays, or when an area loses power. Like California. Or any state that has tornadoes, hurricanes, winter storms, excessive summer heat, or dependence on "renewable energy." I hear it builds character.

And...Total Cost of Ownership is 2x to 3x the cost of a comparable non-electric vehicle. I wrote a piece on that, but that's kind of off-topic for this post.

Finally, parts are OMg expensive. It's kind of like buying BMW parts in the U.S., except Tesla is in the U.S. And there are parts shortages. Normally this wouldn't be horrible, but if it's part of an electrical system where the outcome causes the car to shut down, well, it's down. Also, many parts are "keyed" with an encryption code so only dealers can tell the car to accept the replacement part. I should mention labor is OMg expensive also. And the service centers often have a two week backlog before they can even look at your car. (Plus 2 weeks to get parts, plus two weeks to put them in, plus the time to find the remaining problems and rectify them....)

---
So, with all that said, is Tesla a bad brand? No. It's an impressive, cutting edge, revolutionary vehicle. It's touted as a luxury vehicle, and in some ways is, others, not so much. It's a car, or a car that's almost an SUV depending on the model--an SUV you can bash your head on while getting in--which makes it unique. If the gull-wing doors work. And you're not in a parking spot where you don't have room to open them--yeah, let your kids stand idly in the parking lot looking at their smartphones while you back the Model X out without running them over.

Will the Cult Of Tesla lynch you if you say anything bad about it? Probably, but only verbally. (Knowing yoga isn't helpful in this situation.)

Honestly, electric vehicles aren't that great--not if you realize "they're a car." Or mini SUV. Or...no, the Cybertruck still isn't out. They're not that bad either. They do tend to over-promise and under-deliver, but they're not bad, are fun in many ways, and for some people make a lot of sense. Remember this is the flip-side of electric vehicles that people don't want to talk about, and should be balanced with the good and great points that are very valid.

I like electric vehicles, and while I did poke at Tesla quite a bit here please take it within the total context of vehicle ownership and with the understanding there are pros and cons to owning any vehicle.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,178 Posts
Maintenance costs are pretty low, though they do exist. Tesla, in my opinion, hides these behind a smoke-and-mirrors "inspection" and "maintenance is on an as-needed basis" "policy" instead of being up front about actually needing to replace things as they wear, which is suspicious given it's more of a selling point in their favor than anything. Maybe it's because they don't want people thinking it's a car, rather "it's a Tesla"--but it's a car. A car that runs on batteries.

HUGE SNIP

I like electric vehicles, and while I did poke at Tesla quite a bit here please take it within the total context of vehicle ownership and with the understanding there are pros and cons to owning any vehicle.
I’m no Tesla fanboi, but you’re soooo right, so many think Teslas are magic. It’s just typical lemming behavior.
Teslas are just cars with great tech, and 0 luxury.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,263 Posts
Maintenance costs are pretty low, though they do exist. Tesla, in my opinion, hides these behind a smoke-and-mirrors "inspection" and "maintenance is on an as-needed basis" "policy" instead of being up front about actually needing to replace things as they wear, which is suspicious given it's more of a selling point in their favor than anything. Maybe it's because they don't want people thinking it's a car, rather "it's a Tesla"--but it's a car. A car that runs on batteries.

So let me be up front: The way I see it, Tesla wants to look at the car for the first five years of ownership and only those years. Not much has to be done, but like any car if you want it to last you do the necessary service to prolong the life of the vehicle. Tesla isn't alone in this, BMW and a few others have pulled some pretty questionable antics in my opinion, so let's lay a few things out in the open.

Being Tesla makes cars, tires need to be balanced and rotated. The difference here is Tesla has special tires due to the high weight of the vehicle, so that's a bit spendy, but expected.

As @Bork_Bork_Bork mentioned, the brake fluid needs to be "inspected," which actually means maintained, and that does mean changed periodically. Because of regenerative braking the brakes don't see lots of use, but the pads and fluids still need replacement as they are used.

Tesla likes to say "inspected" but let's face it, there's no Unicorn magic in there, so fluids and filters need replacement. That not only means the cabin air filter, but the air conditioning systems. The cabin has one, and the battery has its own cooling system, so both need maintenance.

While most people don't think of grease as a fluid, it needs to be changed like oil, since that's what grease contains. So all the pivot points need to be greased regularly.

Each gearbox needs the fluid changed out--yeah, they're filled with fluid only known to Tesla, and like any differential fluid the gearbox fluid needs changing, though not often. Still, it's a service point..

The heating systems (cabin and battery) are fluid driven, so there are hoses to inspect as heat causes them to out-gas and "dry-rot."

Then there's the unexpected stuff. The build quality isn't stellar, though pretty good. Things break, so one component may affect another unexpectedly. Tesla wrote a rather lengthy diagnostic log to a memory chip that wears it out, so that's $2,000 or so when it goes. They eventually did issue a recall on some vehicles when the government got involved for "safety issues," so that may be covered.

Door alignment can be an issue over time, especially if the hinge points aren't lubricated regularly. If they don't register at closed properly, good luck driving out of your garage.

The charging hatch has been known to fail, and in some cases shut down the car. Same with the hood latches, though that's a real pain to disassemble since they're also electronic release and burried inside the area they're protecting, so getting to them...uhg.

Some people had the rear bench seat wear out prematurely (8,000 miles), and OMg that's a spendy ordeal. I think they resolved that on newer models, but replacement can cost $5,000 with labor. I don't want to over-emphasize this one though because it seemed to be on a limited number of cars and was more of a manufacturing oddity than anything, though I do mention it because things like this are at least partly at the owner's expense from what I've seen. I'm sure someone will object to this being listed, but there's also things like the stitching sometimes letting go, though again not on a lot of cars.

The headlight lenses lose their UV glaze and haze up (I just saw this on a Tesla this morning). They're clear plastic covers, so this should be expected. It can be costly to fix unless you're really handy and can sand them down and re-coat them yourself.

There can be wiring and/or connector issues, though they're not common. More common is a poorly-made Chinese USB power adapter putting noise into the electrical system and taking down the car until removed (just unplug it). So this is more of a positive point than negative because the issues are infrequent and usually easily fixed. Tesla has loads of wiring, so this is more a testament to how good it is. The exception is flood damage or a collision causing an unexpected water ingress, then it's not so fun.

Hitting something or being hit (a collision) can result in a lot of expense and down-time. Tesla is a notoriously difficult brand to work on, and the corner garage can't do it. That leaves a few service centers that can, traveling Tesla mechanics, and shipping your car to a service center.

That huge display screen that runs everything. Yeah, you have to look at it because it's flat and there's no feeling for the button indent/outdent. And if it malfunctions you're screwed. If something is in a sub-menu it's difficult to access when driving. Until you get used to it, then you love it. Unless it breaks, or your kid breaks it, then it sucks elephant balls (meaning is a big-time inconvenience, according to the kid that broke one).

Batteries eventually need to be replaced. I only mention it because nobody wants to. Lithium batteries age, so even without use they'll lose capacity with time. If I buy an $80,000 Toyota=Lexus/Honda=Acura with preventative maintenance and conservative driving I can expect 500,000 miles of life (if they don't rust out first). The cost of Tesla lithium battery replacement may therefore be a consideration. Oh, lithium batteries won't save the world. "EV" sounds great, but it's really a lithium battery powered car and lithium is really, really bad for the environment.

They rust. Yup, they do. Inside, outside, underside, all sides. Until Elon makes them from recycled plastic straws they'll do that.

Oh, there's that charging station unavailability thing on holidays, or when an area loses power. Like California. Or any state that has tornadoes, hurricanes, winter storms, excessive summer heat, or dependence on "renewable energy." I hear it builds character.

And...Total Cost of Ownership is 2x to 3x the cost of a comparable non-electric vehicle. I wrote a piece on that, but that's kind of off-topic for this post.

Finally, parts are OMg expensive. It's kind of like buying BMW parts in the U.S., except Tesla is in the U.S. And there are parts shortages. Normally this wouldn't be horrible, but if it's part of an electrical system where the outcome causes the car to shut down, well, it's down. Also, many parts are "keyed" with an encryption code so only dealers can tell the car to accept the replacement part. I should mention labor is OMg expensive also. And the service centers often have a two week backlog before they can even look at your car. (Plus 2 weeks to get parts, plus two weeks to put them in, plus the time to find the remaining problems and rectify them....)

---
So, with all that said, is Tesla a bad brand? No. It's an impressive, cutting edge, revolutionary vehicle. It's touted as a luxury vehicle, and in some ways is, others, not so much. It's a car, or a car that's almost an SUV depending on the model--an SUV you can bash your head on while getting in--which makes it unique. If the gull-wing doors work. And you're not in a parking spot where you don't have room to open them--yeah, let your kids stand idly in the parking lot looking at their smartphones while you back the Model X out without running them over.

Will the Cult Of Tesla lynch you if you say anything bad about it? Probably, but only verbally. (Knowing yoga isn't helpful in this situation.)

Honestly, electric vehicles aren't that great--not if you realize "they're a car." Or mini SUV. Or...no, the Cybertruck still isn't out. They're not that bad either. They do tend to over-promise and under-deliver, but they're not bad, are fun in many ways, and for some people make a lot of sense. Remember this is the flip-side of electric vehicles that people don't want to talk about, and should be balanced with the good and great points that are very valid.

I like electric vehicles, and while I did poke at Tesla quite a bit here please take it within the total context of vehicle ownership and with the understanding there are pros and cons to owning any vehicle.
You make a lot of good points, here's my take on things.

I have a 3 LR. I agree, it's not really a luxury car, doesn't have the appointments, features etc... that my Toyota Avalon had for 12K less. It is however an amazing piece of technology and a blast to drive. 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds, whoo, hoo!!
In my mind, it's probably overpriced by 10K but I smile every time I drive it.

I don't have the reference but someone ran 6 or 7 Tesla's for 3 million miles (limo service) and quantified their total cost of ownership. It was very low, much lower than an ICE vehicle. That's not to say that they didn't have their $1500 door handles but overall, the failures were far and few between. You could easily get away with air filter, 12 volt battery, wiper blades and tires for quite a few years.

Battery degredation is an issue but overplayed by many. With proper care you should have 70-75% of range still after 10 years. I've got about 270 miles practically (rated at 350 miles) , even at 190 miles, that still works for me.

If you get into an accident, you are screwed, it's way too easy to "damage" the battery and have a 20K repair. It's a replacement part, not serviced.

Should you ride share in it? Heck no!! You are asking for it. Your fuel cost may only be 4 cents a mile but paxholes will quickly destroy door handles, windows or something else.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,303 Posts
Each gearbox needs the fluid changed out--yeah, they're filled with fluid only known to Tesla, and like any differential fluid the gearbox fluid needs changing, though not often. Still, it's a service point..

Oh, lithium batteries won't save the world. "EV" sounds great, but it's really a lithium battery powered car and lithium is really, really bad for the environment.

And...Total Cost of Ownership is 2x to 3x the cost of a comparable non-electric vehicle. I wrote a piece on that, but that's kind of off-topic for this post.

Honestly, electric vehicles aren't that great--not if you realize "they're a car." Or mini SUV.
Well done. That's a pretty good dissertation you penned there. Tesla does tend to minimize service needs. Tesla hasn't changed the laws of physics (barely), and brake fluid still absorbs moisture and needs changing. As example.

But you are losing me on...

Small point. Tesla uses standard issue transmission fluid in the gearbox of its cars (can't recall the variety). At least they did with the Model 3, when I looked it up.

Lithium is a minor element in the battery. To use your vernacular more accurately, a Tesla is a nickel battery powered car. Still, your point about lithium being harmful to the environment may be correct. I look at this way... we are near the end of the road for gasoline/diesel powered vehicles. We are near the beginning of the road with EVs. Battery tech continues to evolve, and although at a snail's pace, its going in a cleaner direction. Advantage: EVs.

"Total Cost of Ownership is 2x to 3x the cost of a comparable non-electric vehicle" Whaaaat? Need a link to back a claim like that up please.

"Honestly, electric vehicles aren't that great--not if you realize "they're a car."" Really? Is that your final answer?

And, with most of these points, let us not forget that Tesla is well on its way to achieving its goal of the million mile powertrain. Battery chemistry is improving relentlessly. That aforementioned gearbox has a [changeable] oil filter. Lots of engineering efforting to make the car last a long time. If you don't get in a wreck your Tesla should do well in terms of lifespan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WI_Hedgehog

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,303 Posts
Should you ride share in it? Heck no!! You are asking for it. Your fuel cost may only be 4 cents a mile but paxholes will quickly destroy door handles, windows or something else.
Perhaps, but I have had two tesla's on order, that if I had taken delivery of, would be put to use part time for RS. I put 65K miles on my 2019 Bolt EV (the first one) and when I removed the seat covers and returned to the dealer they commented that it looked like no one had ever ridden in the back seat.

If I take delivery on my reserved Tesla CyberTruck it to will be put to work in the fields to help earn its keep. I trust the control I have with RS as opposed to letting the car out on weekends through Turo. ;>

Just sayin'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Disgusted Driver

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Well done. That's a pretty good dissertation you penned there. Tesla does tend to minimize service needs. Tesla hasn't changed the laws of physics (barely), and brake fluid still absorbs moisture and needs changing. As example.

But you are losing me on...

Small point. Tesla uses standard issue transmission fluid in the gearbox of its cars (can't recall the variety). At least they did with the Model 3, when I looked it up.

Lithium is a minor element in the battery. To use your vernacular more accurately, a Tesla is a nickel battery powered car. Still, your point about lithium being harmful to the environment may be correct. I look at this way... we are near the end of the road for gasoline/diesel powered vehicles. We are near the beginning of the road with EVs. Battery tech continues to evolve, and although at a snail's pace, its going in a cleaner direction. Advantage: EVs.

"Total Cost of Ownership is 2x to 3x the cost of a comparable non-electric vehicle" Whaaaat? Need a link to back a claim like that up please.

"Honestly, electric vehicles aren't that great--not if you realize "they're a car."" Really? Is that your final answer?

And, with most of these points, let us not forget that Tesla is well on its way to achieving its goal of the million mile powertrain. Battery chemistry is improving relentlessly. That aforementioned gearbox has a [changeable] oil filter. Lots of engineering efforting to make the car last a long time. If you don't get in a wreck your Tesla should do well in terms of lifespan.
On the older units the gearbox oil is suspected to be Mobil SHC 629. Looking for the type (again, since I haven't done it in a while), it seems to be Dexron 6 for the newer gearboxes. Why this is such a long-term secret I don't know, but thanks for prompting me to take another look.

Tesla batteries continue to evolve and lead the industry by an incredible gap. Currently they seem to use lithium-nickel-cobalt-aluminium chemistry. The cobalt seems to be another hot button due to forced labor issues (previous link), and with producing more batteries that will probably only worsen. Not my main point, but definitely something to think about. I personally think battery technology is improving at a dramatic rate and am happy to see it. Recycling is an issue though, another thing people don't want to discuss, but is off-topic in this case.

TCO: The $20,000 is the pre-paid cost on a $40,000 battery and very, very risky vs. another investment due to the caveats of the agreement (like the assumption of future battery costs on Tesla's part), but in brief I wrote in 2019 (elsewhere):
Superchargers used to be free, now there's a fee. They've also added an Idle Fee, although it seems reasonable that if some self-important SMUG ties up a charger needlessly they should be penalized.

As a side note, this begs the question: Is electric cheaper than gas?
  • The 85 kWh Tesla Model S costs about $22 to fully charge as of March 2018.
  • The maximum range on a full charge is 265 miles.
  • If we compare the Model S with a car that gets 30 MPG, the gas engine would use 8.83 gallons of fuel.
  • If $22 was spend on 8.83 gallons of gas, the fuel would cost $2.49 per gallon.
  • When the battery pack wears out, replacement cost is around $40,000. (There's a bunch of hedging-your-bet if you want it for less than that, but as with all bets, you could lose...)
To be fair, gas was about $3.50/gallon at that time, and since then fuel prices came down to $1.92 (currently in WI), and electricity prices went up. So to lean the calculations in Tesla's favor and fix gas rates at $3.50/gal and electricity at $22/charge, and ignoring the price of the Model S, which again is hugely leaning in Tesla's favor, Tesla's battery cost adds $0.50/mile (figuring it lasts about 80,000 miles and costs $40,000), or $132 to that 265 mile trip.

Gas engine: $22 per 265 miles at $2.50/gallon, $31 at $3.50/gal., assuming 30 MPG.
Tesla: $22 + $132 = $154 per fill-up at 265 miles.

Even if electricity was free, the batteries aren't, and that's where the major expense lies.
With that said, current Tesla batteries do seem to be lasting more than 80,000 miles, so the above is out of date.

Yes, I think Tesla's are great if looking at the technology and uniqueness, but not if they're thought of as if they were a gas-powered car (instead of electric) that takes a loooong time to fill, where the engine needs to be replaced periodically (instead pf the battery). They're also not as nice inside or outside as they're made out to be, but they are nice, and definitely unique and stylish in a good way. In no way am I trying to minimize other's purpose and valuation of the car.

The single-speed gearbox is truly awesome.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,263 Posts
Perhaps, but I have had two tesla's on order, that if I had taken delivery of, would be put to use part time for RS. I put 65K miles on my 2019 Bolt EV (the first one) and when I removed the seat covers and returned to the dealer they commented that it looked like no one had ever ridden in the back seat.

If I take delivery on my reserved Tesla CyberTruck it to will be put to work in the fields to help earn its keep. I trust the control I have with RS as opposed to letting the car out on weekends through Turo. ;>

Just sayin'.
I'm with you, no way I would ever let the car go out on Turo, especially with something as fast as this, you are asking for it to be abused.
The problem with using a Tesla for RS is that people do not know what to do with the doors. They are likely to place pressure on the outside handles and use the emergency release from the inside. I've asked a few people who do use them for rides and they have expressed those concerns. Then there's the fact that I didn't buy it as a rational purchase, I got it for me to enjoy and I don't need a paxhole barfing in it, I would kill them. I have a beater van for that it is meant to be used and abused.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,263 Posts
On the older units the gearbox oil is suspected to be Mobil SHC 629. Looking for the type (again, since I haven't done it in a while), it seems to be Dexron 6 for the newer gearboxes. Why this is such a long-term secret I don't know, but thanks for prompting me to take another look.

Tesla batteries continue to evolve and lead the industry by an incredible gap. Currently they seem to use lithium-nickel-cobalt-aluminium chemistry. The cobalt seems to be another hot button due to forced labor issues (previous link), and with producing more batteries that will probably only worsen. Not my main point, but definitely something to think about. I personally think battery technology is improving at a dramatic rate and am happy to see it. Recycling is an issue though, another thing people don't want to discuss, but is off-topic in this case.

TCO: The $20,000 is the pre-paid cost on a $40,000 battery and very, very risky vs. another investment due to the caveats of the agreement (like the assumption of future battery costs on Tesla's part), but in brief I wrote in 2019 (elsewhere):
Superchargers used to be free, now there's a fee. They've also added an Idle Fee, although it seems reasonable that if some self-important SMUG ties up a charger needlessly they should be penalized.

As a side note, this begs the question: Is electric cheaper than gas?
  • The 85 kWh Tesla Model S costs about $22 to fully charge as of March 2018.
  • The maximum range on a full charge is 265 miles.
  • If we compare the Model S with a car that gets 30 MPG, the gas engine would use 8.83 gallons of fuel.
  • If $22 was spend on 8.83 gallons of gas, the fuel would cost $2.49 per gallon.
  • When the battery pack wears out, replacement cost is around $40,000. (There's a bunch of hedging-your-bet if you want it for less than that, but as with all bets, you could lose...)
To be fair, gas was about $3.50/gallon at that time, and since then fuel prices came down to $1.92 (currently in WI), and electricity prices went up. So to lean the calculations in Tesla's favor and fix gas rates at $3.50/gal and electricity at $22/charge, and ignoring the price of the Model S, which again is hugely leaning in Tesla's favor, Tesla's battery cost adds $0.50/mile (figuring it lasts about 80,000 miles and costs $40,000), or $132 to that 265 mile trip.

Gas engine: $22 per 265 miles at $2.50/gallon, $31 at $3.50/gal., assuming 30 MPG.
Tesla: $22 + $132 = $154 per fill-up at 265 miles.

Even if electricity was free, the batteries aren't, and that's where the major expense lies.
With that said, current Tesla batteries do seem to be lasting more than 80,000 miles, so the above is out of date.

Yes, I think Tesla's are great if looking at the technology and uniqueness, but not if they're thought of as if they were a gas-powered car (instead of electric) that takes a loooong time to fill, where the engine needs to be replaced periodically (instead pf the battery). They're also not as nice inside or outside as they're made out to be, but they are nice, and definitely unique and stylish in a good way. In no way am I trying to minimize other's purpose and valuation of the car.

The single-speed gearbox is truly awesome.

There's no doubt that electric is cheaper per mile, here's why.

I charge at home via a dryer socket. My cost per kwH is 10.5 cents, worst case scenario I get 3 miles to the KwH or roughly 4 cents per mile for electricity. Most of the time 3-4 hours of charge overnight is sufficient to cover the miles driven by me for a few days. Worst case, 10 hours overnight will get me 250 miles of range. A supercharger at 25cents per KwH will get me 180 miles of range in 20 minutes. So yes, a little more inconvenient than an ICE vehicle IF you don't change your habits or you have the occasional last minute emergency. In 4 months I've never had cause to go below 20% battery and frankly it's really convenient to just plug the car in instead of having to go to the gas station and drop 50 bucks on a tank.
The battery in the model 3 LR is $16K I think. Assuming it lasts 160K till the range is crippling (and you could still use it for a 100 mile range car) you are talking another 10 cents per mile in battery cost. But that's not a fair comparison, how much of your engine/transmission/brakes have you used up in 150K miles? I will probably go 150K minimum without replacing the brakes, just did a 150 mile trip and tapped them once.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
741 Posts
You‘re entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts. Much of what you’re saying is just flat out wrong. For example…

Each gearbox needs the fluid changed out--yeah, they're filled with fluid only known to Tesla, and like any differential fluid the gearbox fluid needs changing, though not often.
Teslas electric motors have two moving parts, and single-speed “transmissions” that have no gears. There’s no “gearbox fluid changing”. The Tesla drivetrain has about 17 moving parts compared with about 200 in a conventional internal combustion drivetrain. Less moving parts, less things to break. In fact 9 out of ten of the most common automotive repairs don’t even exist on a Tesla.

The only things most owners will ever have to do are wiper blades (if you live where it rains), brakes, and tires. Tesla brakes last two to three times longer that on other cars because of the regenerative braking. The only filter is a cabin air filter, which is certainly optional, and costs $10 on Amazon. Plus there‘s a ton of advantages people don’t realize until they get one… like using HOV lanes, no annual emissions test (because there’s no emissions), no expensive lost fobs to replace because there aren’t any fobs, no leaky fluids in your garage because there aren’t any fluids, etc.

Perhaps the most under rated thing about owning a Tesla is charging at home and never having to go into a dirty convenience store or sketchy gas station again.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
741 Posts
The battery in the model 3 LR is $16K I think. Assuming it lasts 160K till the range is crippling (and you could still use it for a 100 mile range car) you are talking another 10 cents per mile in battery cost. But that's not a fair comparison, how much of your engine/transmission/brakes have you used up in 150K miles? I will probably go 150K minimum without replacing the brakes, just did a 150 mile trip and tapped them once.
160K miles?? Battery typically lasts well over 500K… closer to a million. Longer than most engines, and without any maintenance costs. Where it really gets amazing is when you take advantage of free charging… at home with solar or free chargers at work, malls, etc. I use a city spot almost exclusively that’s 100% free.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,110 Posts
It’s worked so far. Maybe it’s your driving?
"So far" is correct. My driving? Perhaps, but then again, "so far" so good. On the side of the road, yep. Never once in my car. Gotta' know what to look for (10,000+ rides.) Pukers come in every form. Perhaps yours will be that carsick baby/child? Oooops, spoiled it for ya'!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
.... Teslas electric motors have two moving parts, and single-speed “transmissions” that have no gears. There’s no “gearbox fluid changing”....
Apparently the video I provided explaining the Tesla gearbox (bearings, gears, motor, electronics, fluid, cooling, couplers, etc.) conflicts with your reality.

Kind of like how you think insurance companies magically cover all collision loss and inconvenience instead of trying to stick the customer with as much cost as they can.

Or how you think the occasional unexpected sickness is some other driver's fault.

I don't know what you're an "authority" on, unless "ignorance" and "arrogance" are your metrics. 😆
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
741 Posts
Apparently the video I provided explaining the Tesla gearbox (bearings, gears, motor, electronics, fluid, cooling, couplers, etc.) conflicts with your reality.
I think your confusion comes from outdated info. But since you weren’t able to do you own research, I’m happy to help. Heres a great article that not only explains why there is no transmission or gear box, but goes a little into what a transmission does, and even ends with the specific the specific misunderstanding you posted about older Tesla Model S (pre 2016)


“EVs only have/need a single-gear – or at least, this was true for the vast majority of electric cars made in the past decade. As a result of this, a transmission system is not needed in an electric car. And since there’s no transmission, there’s no transmission fluid required in an EV either!”


Hope this clears up your misunderstandings… I’m sure you’re not the only one with inaccurate and outdated information. Feel free to follow up with any questions or apologies. ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,263 Posts
160K miles?? Battery typically lasts well over 500K… closer to a million. Longer than most engines, and without any maintenance costs. Where it really gets amazing is when you take advantage of free charging… at home with solar or free chargers at work, malls, etc. I use a city spot almost exclusively that’s 100% free.
Yikes, I went back and fact checked and you are spot on, expected lifespan over 500K miles with average 5% degradation over first 100K (20% degradation at 400K). Obvoiously that assumes proper battery care (not regularly charging over 90% and never letting it get to 0%)

Why? That’s what insurance is for.
Yeah but you lose your car for a month (hopefully you have rental car replacement) and you are more likely to get totaled as they get older. Resale value on them is very high right now but that will not always be the case.
 
41 - 60 of 81 Posts
Top